Newbie issues, still - [CHDK for Dummies - The Very First Steps]

[intrnst]

(on the matter of Help making CHDK and the forum better)

What do you think about a setepontos research about the most frequent/annoying/basic newbie questions and, with these results, do a enhanced section on wikia about them? Like a SuperFAQ, plenty of descriptions, pictures and hot links? Since Barney's withdrawal wikia is a little bit stucked.

So, anyone who have some knowledge and interest could choose a topic, write and post on wikia. Then, the others members could judge about objectivity, clarity and suggest corrections.
This is not a great commitment, is more like something to do at spare times.

How do you think this TPG (TIP Posting Group) efforts could be coordinated?

Bill, Psychokitty, anyone?


Edit: The project is done. It's now at CHDK for Dummies - CHDK Wiki and is public domain.
(14Jun2008)

[PhyrePhoX]

yes, sifting through old posts to find the most beginner mistakes & misunderstandings is a good idea. it will be a lot of work though. good luck, you have my approval (as in my personal approval, as in a developers approval, as in a mods approval and finally as in a chdk users approval). the best faqs can and should be added to this forum as well (via sticky threads), and also could/should be incorporated in graystars funky new guide.

[whim]

...and while we're on the subject I would also vote for adding a small readme.txt to the trunk with tips
how to get CHDK going, ideally this should be auto-added to the binary zips at compile time 

excellent intiative (unfortunately I'm highly allergic to wikia editing  )

wim

[acseven]

I think the faq that is currently being built is a good document, and that will probably cover most doubt.

CHDK End-User's Guide

[BB]

I took a shot at a A720 readme.txt file (really applies to pretty much all Dry OS only cameras)... Very focused on getting CHDK running--nothing on how to use CHDK (wrote before CardTricks was completed--oh those many weeks ago  ).

Intrnst liked it--but I never got much else in the way of feedback or interest in including in the releases... (readme.txt attached)

-Bill

[intrnst]

@acseven and PhyrePhoX:
Yes, but... As jeff666 wisely got, the manual is good but the manual will be out of date pretty soon. I think if we do some wikia FAQs, easily GrayStar could update his manual (and vice-versa); the same for setepontos sticky threads; and for Bill's/m2tk's TXTs efforts. But what bothers me is this non existent integrated solution - at least at this moment - leading scattered efforts in several different ways for the very same purpose. So, still quoting, using HTML, LaTeX or other simple online editable / cooperative tool , the devs [and anyone] can update a particular piece of information as they change.

@all:
Till now nobody suggested a coordination way/tool (to avoid redundace and to
check the accuracy of the posts). Please do.

Besides that, it could begin now the gathering and prioritization of the topics. Thinking on threads like that and that I'll dare open one now.
Hope you don't mind!

Edit: Link posted The Newbie's FAQ (Frequent Annoying Questions) research
 

[acseven]

From my pov, should you choose any platform, and to have it install paired to this forum, I had to analyze if it is possible for me to have it running or not.

Cheers

[intrnst]

From my pov, should you choose any platform, and to have it install paired to this forum, I had to analyze if it is possible for me to have it running or not.

Cheers

This is so far from what I can do with my little knowledge. But if someone knows how, please, raise your hand: you own the task!

Thanks anyway.

[intrnst]

A FAQ about how to bracket shoot in general, or Tv, or which?
In any case, sure thing! You just tell me what manner you want it written in (so there's continuity/consistency with other FAQ write-ups).

Yes, well... that's exactly the point here - and till now we have no definitions. This idea about Firsts Steps for CHDK or CHDK for Dummies: an easy guide for the newbie, plain instructions that could lead the reader from the point zero to (at least) a simple CHDK task in his camera. But that's not unanimity. My belief lives in the fact that wikia is already plenty of good infos, but in a scary (and non friendly) way for a noob.

I'm thinking on start, at this week, a new section at CHDK Wikia and hope for help and criticism in further steps.

Any thoughts are very welcome.
Thanks for join us.

[Psychokitty]

The wiki is chock full of information, but it's obviously written by contributors who know how to program. In some cases, it's written by persons who know traditional photography, as well. Most noobs, like myself, aren't well versed in either.
You have to regard end users as being on one of a few different levels of understanding of this stuff. It's not a measure of intelligence, it's a measure of the combination of priorities and interest.
For example, I love the camera. I love the tech part of all of this. I try to hack everything I have to make it better.
Probably most people love the results and the photography, but don't care much about the technical part.
If we first agree that there are two distinct groups that we need to provide documentation for, then that might be a step towards progress, IMO. The sheer volume of material to read for the new end user to have to wade through to find answers to his questions I'm sure is a real snoozer! Post a poll on some other photography forum, and ask the general public how many Canon P&S camera owners have actually sat down and read their manual cover to cover.
Here it might have been 92-95% at the time the wiki pages were being written because chances are, if you were here, you're technical in nature and reading a camera manual feeds something we all need. But in the real world, most people just skim through it. Now new users are coming here in droves, which was inevitable.
Someone had a great idea with an empty chart that script writers could fill out to explain what the settings did. If something like that was done for every part of the CHDK, it would make it easy to fill it out, easy to find it, and easy to read it. That combined with graystar's pdf should be plenty for the end user. A FAQ for each section should be created at the bottom, along with links to all the scripts pertinent to the topic.
Is there a limit to the wiki pages we can use? I'm thinking only one section (maybe two) per page.
People like charts and lists. They like knowing that all of the info provided on the subject they're looking up is all in the same place.
I think the original starter's page is great, but needs to be updated.
I have never edited the wiki because I've always felt unqualified.

There's also a huge confusion created on the forum by people working independently, discovering new things, scripts or fixes, scripts that are proven to be universal, etc, and these things don't go directly into trunk. I don't understand why. I don't understand who is picking and choosing what gets to be put into trunk and what gets pushed to the side. Then I have read that there is a mindset by some that CHDK should be kept "simple" for endusers; -or maybe that's scriptwriters I'm reading saying that.
In either case, it's really kind of crazy around here. There's no ONE PAGE chronology anywhere, where all authors of all things publish their discoveries and findings. I had to go searching for a script, and stumbled upon fudgey's script, which turns out to be the best of them all.
-But it's not in the wki scripts pages...

I think some dated documentation should be a set policy or something. This whole thing is going to expand exponentially, very soon, and if there isn't a good "filing system" in place, it's going to be a real mess.
That's just my two cents. I sure hope I haven't offended anyone. I personally think it's all of our (the end users) duty to help in some way, so I'll do whatever I'm told no matter what direction you all want to go. And I really appreciate the opportunity to voice my opinion.

[intrnst]

The wiki is chock full of information...

And your message too ;]

Sorry for my delay, I was without Internet link these days.
I agree with you. And that's the point. I feel that the noob is a little bit lost here. At least when he/she arrives. So what's all  about? An effort to make a veeeery simple section (at wikia or...) where he/she could get used to some concepts and basic infos.

I made some scratch page at wikia, but unsure if it will fit or be approved as a solution, I leave it down. Any criticism are welcome.

Bill, PhyrePhoX, acseven?

[A_Str8]

BB - You should add the text of your readme to the wiki's a720 page

I just started using CHDK this past Friday. I have a decent understanding of photography concepts and I'm good with computers/tech. Following the wiki was (and still is) maddening. Too many articles are not linked to articles they should be linked to. Too many articles explaining the steps to procedure A require you follow steps for procedure B (written on a different page) which requires procedures C and D (which you can only find with a search). Often, if there's more than one way to do something, the methods are simply listed without giving new users enough info to diffrentiate between them. Too many pages are dedicated to builds that once had build specific features - I shouldn't need to read about several different versions of CHDK just to find out about Allbest if Allbest is the standard.

A real example - I did a search on get_prop. I found 2 pages listing property cases, both put of date. Through the forum I found  a link to a seperate "Propery Cases" page that seems more recent and is not linked to from the other pages.

I think what would really help us newbies out is organization of info. A lot of the info is out there but just hard to find. New FAQs would be great, but if they are added to the same disorganized collection, they won't reach their potential usefulness.

[intrnst]

I think what would really help us newbies out is organization of info. A lot of the info is out there but just hard to find. New FAQs would be great, but if they are added to the same disorganized collection, they won't reach their potential usefulness.

Very true. The sad thing is that CHDK wikia has a lot of colaborators and almost none coordinator.

[A_Str8]

I think what would really help us newbies out is organization of info. A lot of the info is out there but just hard to find. New FAQs would be great, but if they are added to the same disorganized collection, they won't reach their potential usefulness.

Very true. The sad thing is that CHDK wikia has a lot of colaborators and almost none coordinator.

Heh. And I feel sorry for whoever takes that job on. There is a lot of info to be organized

[intrnst]

Very true. The sad thing is that CHDK wikia has a lot of colaborators and almost none coordinator.

Heh. And I feel sorry for whoever takes that job on. There is a lot of info to be organized

Maybe again you get right to the point. Luckily I'm disqualified enough for such task.