Eos 400d ( Rebel XTI )

scottscheetz

Hello everyone,
Sorry to be the needy person, but I've been attempting to set up the cross-compiler for a long time on my Fedora16 system and have had no luck. I'm currently running the 200110615-4 (June 15, 2011) build of 400plus, and was wondering if someone could help me by extending the high ISO to 6400 and the corresponding 1/3rd stops between 3200 and 6400.

Here is a link to the source code build 20110615-4 download:
http://code.google.com/p/400plus/downloads/detail?name=400plus-20110615-4.src.zip&can=1&q=

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
- Scott S.

eduperez

scottscheetz
Hello everyone,
Sorry to be the needy person, but I've been attempting to set up the cross-compiler for a long time on my Fedora16 system and have had no luck. I'm currently running the 200110615-4 (June 15, 2011) build of 400plus, and was wondering if someone could help me by extending the high ISO to 6400 and the corresponding 1/3rd stops between 3200 and 6400.

Here is a link to the source code build 20110615-4 download:
http://code.google.com/p/400plus/downloads/detail?name=400plus-20110615-4.src.zip&can=1&q=

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
- Scott S.

I already tried to use ISOs above 3000, but they do not work: there seems to be some partial support in the firmware, and the camera is even capable of showing those values in the display; but the result is a completely broken picture. And 1/3 stops are not real either: the camera works with 1/8 stops internally, but only uses 3/8 (displayed as 1/3), 4/8 (displayed as 1/2), and 5/8 (displayed as 2/3) stops.

But perhaps you have more knowledge and / or luck than me... I also use Fedora 16, so if you still want to try it, just send me (by a private message) your email address, and I'll share a folder at Dropbox with my toolchain (about 150MB, if my memory serves correctly). You might also want to have a look at the updated devinfo page; the new procedure is much simpler now.

Hope this helps.

scottscheetz

Thanks for the quick response. You are probably much more knowledgeable about the subject then I am.

I thought I had seen something from back in 2009 on this thread where someone had gotten the ISO up to 4000, or 5000. I was wondering if that was could be achieved, but it sounds like it is not. So does the camera start under-exposing once you get past 3000, because I've never noticed a problem when shooting at 3200? (Ex: ISO 6400 would be around 1 stop under-exposed)

Interesting that the camera works by 1/8th stops internally. I never knew that.

eduperez

scottscheetz
Thanks for the quick response. You are probably much more knowledgeable about the subject then I am.

I thought I had seen something from back in 2009 on this thread where someone had gotten the ISO up to 4000, or 5000. I was wondering if that was could be achieved, but it sounds like it is not. So does the camera start under-exposing once you get past 3000, because I've never noticed a problem when shooting at 3200? (Ex: ISO 6400 would be around 1 stop under-exposed)

Interesting that the camera works by 1/8th stops internally. I never knew that.

Yes, it's very easy to "ask" the camera to set higher ISOs, and the display will happily show values up to 6400; but the pictures come out completely broken: not just underexposed, all the camera produces are random blobs of color on a completely black background.

The highest usable ISO is 3000 (ISO 1600 + 7/8 EV, actually), not 3200; but as the camera uses 1/3 stop numbers, it rounds to "3200" when asked to set ISO 3000. Older versions of 400plus set ISO 3000 and let the camera display "3200", and hence the confusion. On newer versions, we do the display ourselves, and thus we show "3000" when we set ISO 3000.

scottscheetz

How interesting. Well I guess that answers my question pretty well, and explains why it won't work. I wonder if there is some way to get around the broken image problem at ISOs higher than 3000. Some sort of other patch maybe? Probably not though. Thanks for all your help.

eduperez

scottscheetz
How interesting. Well I guess that answers my question pretty well, and explains why it won't work. I wonder if there is some way to get around the broken image problem at ISOs higher than 3000. Some sort of other patch maybe? Probably not though. Thanks for all your help.

In 400plus we have to "enable" intermediate ISOs, as a previous step; just asking the camera to use them does not seem to be enough. That first action is still a mystery to me (somebody else found it before I joined the project), so perhaps there is a method to enable higher ISOs, that we must use before going higher than 3000... who knows.

Bear in mind that we are just asking the camera to use one ISO or another, we are not doing any of the work ourselves; patching the internal processing algorithms is way out of scope for me.

0xAF

eduperez

scottscheetz
How interesting. Well I guess that answers my question pretty well, and explains why it won't work. I wonder if there is some way to get around the broken image problem at ISOs higher than 3000. Some sort of other patch maybe? Probably not though. Thanks for all your help.

In 400plus we have to "enable" intermediate ISOs, as a previous step; just asking the camera to use them does not seem to be enough. That first action is still a mystery to me (somebody else found it before I joined the project), so perhaps there is a method to enable higher ISOs, that we must use before going higher than 3000... who knows.

Bear in mind that we are just asking the camera to use one ISO or another, we are not doing any of the work ourselves; patching the internal processing algorithms is way out of scope for me.

In my opinion ISO greater than 3000 would not be possible ever on this camera.
The firmwares that are used in all the cameras share some base functionality (actually they are almost the same in functionality), only that for the cheaper models some features are "disabled", but there is still functionality in the camera. So we basically "unlock" some of the goodies that are already there.
In the hardware point of view it is different... the sensor used in 400d is not capable of ISO > 3000 (i was actually surprised that it made even 3000).
As far as I know the ISO depends on the voltage applied over the sensor, so if you choose ISO 100, there is X volts on the sensor, if you choose ISO 200, there is 2X volts on the sensor (this is only an example, it is most likely very different scheme of voltage applying), and so on ...
Our sensor is capable of handling up to ISO 3000, then when you ask for more, you are applying more voltage on the sensor, and it gives you what it can, broken image... so IMO it's not a matter of under/over exposure ... it is just broken...
and i would not force my chances on the sensor applying more voltage on it than it can handle...

So this is what I know about the sensor... but it can be wrong, it's just my opinion.

eduperez

All intermediate ISOs are software-based: the camera applies a digital amplification (aka multiplication) after the capture and digitalization phase; for example, when set to ISO-125 (ISO-100 + 2/8 EV) the camera configures the sensor for ISO-100, then multiplies each value by 1.25 (1 + 2/😎 after the digitalization.

Consequently, ISO-3000 is just ISO-1600 + 7/8 EV, and it just works; but ISO-3200 is a full stop over ISO-1600. It could be done by software, but then the algorithm used to calculate intermediate ISOs should be ready to increase a full stop. Or it could be done by hardware, but as 0xAF explains that means tinkering with hardware, and thus dangerous.

guffster

Just thought I would try to stir up some discussion in an otherwise quiet forum.

What is your favorite feature in 400plus and why?

I'll start it off. My favorite feature by far is the "Presets" feature. With this added ability I can store up to 9 different shooting styles (per CF card) and easily switch between them for fast setting and parameter changes for different types of shooting styles while in the field. And with the "way cool" ability to rename each preset to something friendly and meaningful instead of simply "Preset 1", "Preset 2", etc. this gives me capabilities in the 400d camera that many other cameras that are much more expensive don't offer. Thanks for that!

My second favorite feature would be "Spot Metering"- I think all Canon bodies should offer this very well known metering mode. I use it all the time. Thanks for that as well!

eduperez

guffster
Just thought I would try to stir up some discussion in an otherwise quiet forum.

What is your favorite feature in 400plus and why?

[...]

Nice idea, I'll join in:

* Spot metering: this single feature is what got me started with this project, and is the metering mode I always use now; I cannot understand why canon decided to block this feature (actually yes, I know they did it not to undermine the sales of higher cameras).

* ISO in viewfinder: much much faster that using the display; I just wish it could work better (like make it work in other modes, and be more obvious to the user).

* Presets: this and the configuration of the TRASH / JUMP buttons (I have mine set so JUMP => MLU and TRASH => AEB) are very useful for walking around; I just wish we had more buttons!

* Safety shift: another useful feature incomprehensibly left out.

* Negative flash exposure compensation: in low-light situations and with a fast lens, gives portraits just a nice touch of light; I would never use the incorporated flash with an FEV higher than -4EV.

* Long exposure script and calculator: I like long-exposure photography a lot, and this is very useful to me, especially when using strong ND filters; next version will probably show some enhancements to this feature.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a "400plus in action" page in the wiki, where people can add links to their blog posts talking about how they use 400plus; what do you think about that?

Mirfak

guffster
Just thought I would try to stir up some discussion in an otherwise quiet forum.

What is your favorite feature in 400plus and why?

I'll start it off. My favorite feature by far is the "Presets" feature. With this added ability I can store up to 9 different shooting styles (per CF card) and easily switch between them for fast setting and parameter changes for different types of shooting styles while in the field. And with the "way cool" ability to rename each preset to something friendly and meaningful instead of simply "Preset 1", "Preset 2", etc. this gives me capabilities in the 400d camera that many other cameras that are much more expensive don't offer. Thanks for that!

When we can use Scene Modes for quickly dialing-in presets, that will be my favorite feature. In the meantime, there's a lot to like: 1) AutoISO 2) Spot Meter 3) Long exposure stuff....Okay, no single favorite 😀

docthomas

OK got the new bin installed and it is pretty nice. using the jump button for the ISO incrementals and that seems to best compromise.

I am trying to get A-Dep to work though. I set a preset, in this case an ISO of 3000, spot metering and an EV of +2/3 and then I save it . all works well as a starting point for low light high ISO pics but then when I switch out of A-DEP I have all my AV and ISO settings still. ISO is an easy fix but the AV not so much. so I set up a "default" preset. but that is still several clicks into the screen to reset the preset and then it remembers THAT preset as the LAST one the next time I'm in A-dep.

powering off/on does not reset the settings. So what is the best way to switch between A-dep and "default" having to manually reset after a preset change kind of negates the need for the A-dep button if it doesn't reset.

also cannot get ISO in the view finder but not a huge deal to me. I wanted AEB and ISO and possibly A-DEP the rest is unneeded for me.

Thanks for any help

Shawn

0xAF

Ok, great news,
With the great help and work of Andrew and Alex, i've managed to find the VRAM buffer and ported 5dc's (ML's) bmp.[ch] with the fonts.

The first step is done...

400D now says "Hello World!"

400D / 400Plus - VRAM buffers and fonts printed
http://code.google.com/p/400plus/source/detail?r=1342

Thanks a lot guys.

guffster

0xAF
Ok, great news,
With the great help and work of Andrew and Alex, i've managed to find the VRAM buffer and ported 5dc's (ML's) bmp.[ch] with the fonts.

The first step is done...

400D now says "Hello World!"

This is very cool. Great job!

eduperez

docthomas
OK got the new bin installed and it is pretty nice. using the jump button for the ISO incrementals and that seems to best compromise.

I am trying to get A-Dep to work though. I set a preset, in this case an ISO of 3000, spot metering and an EV of +2/3 and then I save it . all works well as a starting point for low light high ISO pics but then when I switch out of A-DEP I have all my AV and ISO settings still. ISO is an easy fix but the AV not so much. so I set up a "default" preset. but that is still several clicks into the screen to reset the preset and then it remembers THAT preset as the LAST one the next time I'm in A-dep.

powering off/on does not reset the settings. So what is the best way to switch between A-dep and "default" having to manually reset after a preset change kind of negates the need for the A-dep button if it doesn't reset.

also cannot get ISO in the view finder but not a huge deal to me. I wanted AEB and ISO and possibly A-DEP the rest is unneeded for me.

Thanks for any help

Shawn

I'm not sure to have understood the problem... you want to load a preset in A-DEP mode, and make A-DEP work as a separate mode, with its own set of parameters, is that? No, unfortunately that is not possible right now. Presets are a quick method to recall a set of parameters, not a separated new mode: if a preset sets the camera into Av mode, for example, then those parameters stay on the Av mode; you cannot have an Av mode for the Av position of the dial and another Av mode for the A-DEP position.

Hope this helps.

eduperez

0xAF
Ok, great news,
With the great help and work of Andrew and Alex, i've managed to find the VRAM buffer and ported 5dc's (ML's) bmp.[ch] with the fonts.

The first step is done...

400D now says "Hello World!"

Thanks a lot guys.

That's GREAT!

Sergei

Great job, 0xAF! I guess you can draw anything on the screen now. New dialogs, help windows... Do you know if default GUI updates screen so often or there is no problem with it?

a1ex

Canon GUI updates can be disabled, at least in DryOS. They draw in a back buffer (idle) and then they copy the image on the front buffer, where the display hardware can see it. There should be a flag preventing them to copy data between buffers.

Also, in certain modes, Canon does not update the screen continuously (they use a event loop). As long as you block the GUI events, it should be fine.

Be careful what events you block.

50D is exception here: they always refresh the central portion of the screen (almost the entire screen, minus some small borders).

See http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/VRAM/BMP .

eduperez

In our "gui.c" we intercept the GUI_IDLEHandler routine, to detect when the main dialog has been updated (event GUI_START_OLC_MODE), and change some of the info displayed (like the spot metering icon, for example). I have played very little with that code, but looks like a nice starting point to look for events to block.

a1ex

I have played a bit with IDLEHandler events, but wasn't able to handle them without causing stability problems.

I'm even thinking to move all menu button handlers into gui_main_task (instead of dialog API).

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