CHDK Forum
Using CHDK => General Help and Assistance on using CHDK stable releases => Hello, I'm a NEWBIE - HELP!! (Newbies assistance, User Guides and thank you notes) => Topic started by: jasonc2 on 03 / February / 2009, 09:24:40
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I have a PowerShot SX100IS. I'm using relatively decent batteries (Radio Shack, they're no Duracell, but they're no Powercell either). When I'm using the normal firmware, I can get hundreds of shots over 3-4 hours on a pair of AA's. When I'm using CHDK, I consistently get maybe 20-30 shots tops over 45-60 minutes before the batteries are sucked completely dry.
Does anybody else have this issue? I'm using pretty much all the default settings, I haven't modified any noise reduction options, not saving RAW files, histogram, zebra, and other data displays are all off. It's a little crazy, I have to pack a dozen AA's when I go out for a walk, now.
Thanks,
J
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I happen to own a SX100 and a laboratory power supply, and also happen to have conducted some measurements on how chdk impacts on energy consumption. It does, but in an insignificant way.
Of course your battery will drain faster if you run around with the shutter half pressed all the time because of chdk, but that is rather your fault then ;)
See:
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2375.0.html (http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2375.0.html)
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I must admit I have found that CHDK is impacting on the life of the batteries. Because I'm taking more and better photos. :P
I can still get a fall day out of a single set of 2500 mAh AA. :D
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Of course your battery will drain faster if you run around with the shutter half pressed all the time because of chdk, but that is rather your fault then ;)
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2375.0.html (http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2375.0.html)
Nice experiment, I'm convinced, but I'm still consistently seeing battery issues... next time I change the batteries I'll try to be more mindful of how often I run around with the shutter half-pressed and see if that fixes it.
It seems reasonable that I wasted a lot of the battery life just playing around, although I'm still surprised that I went through 4 sets of batteries in just a few hours yesterday.
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I have the same problem with my A570 IS. Batteries seem to run down very quickly. Maybe 50 or 60 shots. Sounds a lot, but I am doing 9 shot brackets, so it works out about 6 bracketed rounds.
I notice there are menu options for battery settings. I also noticed if I pop the 'flat' batteries out and try them in another device, the still read full. I have tried setting different values, but I'm not sure what settings to use?
Thanks, J
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I have tried setting different values, but I'm not sure what settings to use?
CHDK settings only configure CHDK's battery indicators. They have nothing to do with the camera's decision to shut down. The a570is is known to shut down early e.g. when using batteries with high internal resistance (Eneloops and similar low self discharge NiMH cells, old batteries, batteries in cold temperatures).
Also, many chargers out there are extremely crappy (no matter what the cost) and fail to charge properly. Stores also stock mislabeled batteries and undoubtedly you can also find batteries on the shelves destroyed due to old age combined with excessively high storage temperatures.
A pair of regular 2700 mAh NiMH batteries charged full using a good charger (using 500 mA charge current, the same charger measures 2600 mAh as their capacity in 200 mA discharge) performs hundreds of timelapse pics (note that zooming and other motors require lots of power, timelapses don't need that) on my 570is in room temperature and keeps fast mode (half shoot) motion detector running for several hours (several being more than three).
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old batteries, batteries in cold temperatures
Ok, I may be over-reacting then.... My first set of batteries came with the camera (old?). The second set are duracell ultra's... when I was using them, I was taking snow shots (cold). I just switch on my camera, that still has the duracell's in it from yesterday. The cam had shutdown, but after waiting a few minutes, the voltage display says 2425mV at 24'C.
Thanks, J
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Today I took a series of about 30 bracketed shots, and was very careful to avoid doing things that drain the batteries. I've found that setting the histogram to always on, for example, instead of during shooting only, helps a lot since it reduces the temptation to press the shutter to see the histogram. I made sure to always turn the camera off as soon as I finished using it, and didn't mess around with too many features, play games, etc.
Now that I am being more careful about it, I am indeed finding that the batteries last about as long as they always have. I put a fresh set of Radio Shack AAs in this morning and they're currently around 90%. So it looks like all is well.
Thanks,
Jason
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i don't know about you, but i prefer rechargeable batteries rather than single use batteries. what are the benefits of using single use batteries anyway?
i think displaying live histogram causes batteries to drain faster.
I've been using CHDK for quite some time, but haven't experienced any change in battery life.
and, of course, LCD takes quite a lot of power to operate: for example, someone measured A550: LCD on: 1A, LCD off: 0.5A of power. quite a difference ;)
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btw in contrast to popular belief, rechargable batteries perform way better in digital cams than the single use ones :)
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LCD takes quite a lot of power to operate: for example, someone measured A550: LCD on: 1A, LCD off: 0.5A of power. quite a difference ;)
Thats not quite the full story, from what I gather....
There is a script to measure the internal resistance of your batteries here :-
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2622.0.html (http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2622.0.html)
Where I read this....
Switching off only the LCD, by plugging a cable into the camera's AV-out terminal, merely reduces power consumption from 1300 to 1150 mW.
Switching off the whole bunch, either by pushing the DISP button or by running my script, reduces power consumption from 1300 to 350 mW.
By the whole bunch he means autofocus and all the other snazzy features.
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when i was talking about 1A vs. 0.5A i was referring to external power source measurements, not internal (battery) current measurements, sorry.
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Fudgey, did you really mean to say that Eneloops don't work as well as other batteries? I spent a couple hours looking up battery stuff yesterday, and everything I read strongly suggested the Eneloops last longer in A-series cameras than most higher-mAh standard types. Lots of complaints about about A-series cameras shutting down early, and lots of solutions from switching to Eneloops (but NOT necessarily to other LSD brands).
One explanation was that Eneloops provide a higher discharge voltage than the others. So even though they have lower mAh ratings, they deliver at a higher voltage during discharge, which keeps the camera on longer. So a 2000 mAh Eneloop may discharge 85-90% of its energy before the camera shuts down, while a 2700 mAh regular nimh will reach the same shutoff voltage after only 50% discharge, or even less.
I was all set to order some, but just saw your comment:
"The a570is is known to shut down early e.g. when using batteries with high internal resistance (Eneloops and similar low self discharge NiMH cells, old batteries, batteries in cold temperatures). "
What I've read suggests that Eneloops have lower internal resistance, not higher. Do I have it wrong?
By the way, the other major problem with these cameras appears to be poor battery contacts. I don't know why, but I had this problem with my A590 right out of the box, with charged batteries. Maybe there's a film of something that's left over from the manufacturing process that gets in the way. I found lots of similar comments in various forums.
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The discharge curves I've seen were pretty similar between Eneloops and regular NiMH, not enough to explain much of anything to either's benefit. I only have personal experience from Varta ready-to-use brand, and they are nearly useless in my a570 compared to regular NiMH. Any benefit from them would have to be from their lower self discharge in storage (which is important in camera use if the camera mostly sits in a drawer unused, in which case even alkalines could actually be a choice).
It was someone else's word elsewhere on these forums I took on eneloops & LSDs in general having higher ESR. I'm convinced they're fine batteries for most uses, but will avoid using them in my camera from the experience with them Vartas, especially until someone explicitely proves me they aren't OEM'd Eneloops...
Note that it's possible that many of the success reports you've found could be due to replacing bad batteries with good ones (stores sometimes carry utter crud and even quality brands go old in storage), instead of replacing good regular NiMHs with good Eneloops. Even a crappy charger may have been replaced in these cases, Eneloops are often marketed with a charger bundle.
Eneloops are still a fairly new product and they have long shelf life, so you're not likely to find a faulty pair at a store... this is in general speaks for purchasing Eneloops, of course!
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My A550 seems to eat batteries a little faster since I started using CHDK as well, but then, i'm also using it to save raw on my camera, which is making it write twice to the memory card per each shot, and do other functions that the camera typically doesn't do, so I expect a little more power usage over the regular firmware.
One thing I did notice though on the battery front, is that my 2500mAh NiMH batteries seemed to die faster than a pair of standard AA alkaline batteries. I ended up switching over to Lithium batteries just so I don't have to carry several sets for just a couple hours of shooting. One set of Lithium batteries last me all day, and then some.
though, I'd really like to use rechargables in my cameras, as it's TONS more convenient to just charge my batteries than having to run to the store for an extra set, and a lot cheaper, Lithium batteries are pricey.
I've seen up to 2700mAh NiMH batteries out there, and would love to try a set if they would run longer than say 15 minutes in my cameras. Perhaps my SX10-IS would take to them a little better.
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would love to try a set if they would run longer than say 15 minutes in my cameras.
what do you mean? why only 15 minutes? i have 2800 mAh rechargeable batteries in my s3 and they last for quite a long time... even with CHDK.
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I get about 15 minutes on standard alkaline batteries. I thought it was really short too, so I actually exchanged the camera when I first noticed that (about 2 hours after buying it), and the replacement camera did the same thing. I put a set of 2500mAh rechargeables in the same camera, and got about the same result life wise give or take a few minutes. But using Lithium batteries, I seem to get a MUCH longer life. I've shot for a number of days, all day on a single pair of Lithium (Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries to be precise), where I'm firing off between 1 and 3 hundred shots a day.
Now, the NiMH batteries I tried weren't brand new, they had a month or two of use in a couple other devices I owned (wireless keyboard / mouse combo). But they were fully charged when I used them, so unless I had defective batteries they should have still been pretty much functioning at their peak.
I'd like to see if a higher power set of NiMH batteries might work better, but I don't really want to pump the money into a charger and a couple sets of batteries unless I know I'm going to get better results. Even if a set of NiMH batteries would last half as long as the Lithium batteries I'm using, I'd be satisfied there.
Is my experience here singular? Or have other people on here noticed Lithium batteries vastly outperforming NiMH batteries?
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15 minutes ?!
Unless you are shooting the whole time with the flash, or the camera is very cold, that seems way to short.
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Yeah, that's what I thought too. Hense me returning the camera the first time because I thought something was shorting out in it. But the one I got to replace it did the same thing.
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Are you using flash ?
About how many exposures do you get ?
You should get hundreds of non-flash exposures out of any decent set of NiMH AAs. Canons claims a CIPA complaint 500. This isn't just marketing hype, people routinely take timelapses that take hundreds of exposures over several hours.
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I was shooting with, and without the flash, and got maybe 20 or so exposures.
From the sounds of it, this is kinda' unusual, I might try it again with a new set of batteries to see if I get the same result.
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I was shooting with, and without the flash, and got maybe 20 or so exposures.
From the sounds of it, this is kinda' unusual, I might try it again with a new set of batteries to see if I get the same result.
I'd describe it more as "horribly broken" than "kinda unusual". Canon claims 500 exposures with NiMH AA (the CIPA standard is mixed flash and no flash) and you are getting something like 1/20th of that. Either your batteries are toast, or there is something wrong with the camera.
Does the battery door get hot ?
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I'd describe it more as "horribly broken" than "kinda unusual". Canon claims 500 exposures with NiMH AA (the CIPA standard is mixed flash and no flash) and you are getting something like 1/20th of that. Either your batteries are toast, or there is something wrong with the camera.
Does the battery door get hot ?
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Not in the slightest. Infact, other than that, and a couple hot pixels that have developed over time, the camera performs wonderfully. One thing though is that I haven't tried it again since the camera was literally brand new. After that I never used anything in it but lithium batteries. It is possible that the camera ate them quickly because it was in it's burn in period. (I've seen this before with a number of electronic devices). I should probably give it a try with NiMH's again.
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It is possible that the camera ate them quickly because it was in it's burn in period
i would say it's more likely to apply to your batteries ... rechargables usually only reach their max capacity after a
couple of charge/discharge cycles. That said, this effect is unlikely to boost them more than 20-30 %
wim
edit:
BTW your observed 'camera burn-in' might be caused by it charging up it's internal battery, the one that feeds the
clock while changinging main batteries ...
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that's really weird what you're describing.
Infact, other than that, and a couple hot pixels that have developed over time, the camera performs wonderfully.
how old is your camera? i have my s3 since 2 years, lots of shots made, lots of long exposures too, but not a single hot pixel. are you sure?
on my s3 i get about 700 shots from 2500 or 2800 mAh rechargeable batteries. i never use normal alkaline batteries. But, after about 1.5 years of heavy using, my rechargeable batteries drained totally and i couldn't charge them anymore (camera didn't even start).
maybe that's the case?
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I'm guessing the usual i.e. faulty set of NiMH cells and/or no-good charger.
Should be easy enough to test that theory e.g. with a flashlight... if they don't last long in a lamp, there's not much charge in them for a camera either.
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To answer the last three posts, The camera is about 2 years old, has taken thousands of exposures now, (I shot over 300 with it two days ago), and other than the two hot pixels, and the unusual battery life at purchase, it hasn't shown any other issues. It doesn't get hot, doesn't show any abnormalities in the photos, (Even the dead pixels are mapped out now thanks to CHDK), and generally performs wonderfully.
The A550 uses a small button type battery (CR1220) for it's memory, that is replaceable, and non rechargeable, so that would negate the "charging it's internal battery" theory suggested by Whim.
Also, I've dealt with a lot of different electronics, and many different cameras, which have shown shorter battery life during the first couple uses. this period is generically referred to as a "burn in" period. In my experience working for Olympus cameras, and my personal experience as a photographer working with Nikon, Canon, and Olympus cameras, it wasn't uncommon for a camera to "eat" it's first set or two of batteries before showing a more normal usage time. I'm surprised that it seems to be such an unusual concept here. Though, burn in's are less noticeable on some things than others.
Is it possible that I had a bad set of rechargeable batteries? Yes. Though, they did perform adequately in other devices that I used them in, such as the wireless keyboard and mouse combo they routinely spent their charges on. But admittedly, they weren't the best batteries, (Energizer), and the charger wasn't the greatest either, I doubt that it did any conditioning to the batteries, it was just the one that was sold with them.
I intend to try a better set of batteries with a better charger, when I can afford to get them. On that note, can anyone suggest a good make of rechargable NiMH batteries that would be good for a camera? i was looking at PowerEX 2700's. I heard someone mention that they found 2900's, but haven't seen anything higher than 2700's myself, so if someone could provide a link, I'd be grateful.
Thanks.
Dennis
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Dennis, have you tried cleaning the battery contacts in the camera? My brand new A590 told me to replace the batteries when I turned it on with a set of freshly charged batteries. After cleaning the contacts, the same batteries lasted many hours.
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Fudgey, I ordered Eneloops and a 550ma charger from Amazon today. But with free shipping, it will be a couple weeks before they arrive.
I don't think I have a way to formally test them, but I'll try to give you some general assessment of how well they work.
There's a local bar that has "live art" twice a month where a local artist paints a portrait while everybody watches. I want to do a timelapse of that process, and that would be a three-hour session with a picture every 5 seconds or so. Of course I'll have everything manual, and no LCD, to conserve power, so it probably won't be a very representative test. But maybe it will give me a general idea of how well the batteries perform.
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Dennis, have you tried cleaning the battery contacts in the camera? My brand new A590 told me to replace the batteries when I turned it on with a set of freshly charged batteries. After cleaning the contacts, the same batteries lasted many hours.
You know, believe it or not I never thought of that. I just assumed that as the camera was brand new at the time they were clean. I'll have to give that a look just to be sure.
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I now have a recommendation :-
Yesterday I drove from one end of England to the other... A set of duracell that were already in my a570 gave me about 800 shots on a timelapse script with the LCD turned off. I got another 3400 shots from 2 "ENERGIZER ULTIMATE LITHIUM DIGITAL" batteries and they are not even registering as used on the camera. Oddly, I didn't even turn the LCD of for that. These batteries rock. The have a quaint little leaflet with them that promises me at least 630 shots. I'm Uber-happy.
See the results on my blog here :- http://blog.global6.net/julesd/index.php?/archives/184-Driving-from-Barrow-in-Furness-to-Tooting-Timelapse.html (http://blog.global6.net/julesd/index.php?/archives/184-Driving-from-Barrow-in-Furness-to-Tooting-Timelapse.html)
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Yeah, the 8X version of those is the same battery that I use, and they're incredible. :) still, I do like the idea of rechargeable. Too bad they don't make rechargeable lithiums in that size. Best of both worlds.
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I got another 3400 shots from 2 "ENERGIZER ULTIMATE LITHIUM DIGITAL" batteries and they are not even registering as used on the camera.
Those AA size Lithium cells have higher voltage compared to regular alkalines and a lot higher than NiMH, which probably fools the battery warning. I've never tried a pair, but don't be surprised if they end up being registered as empty-ish very little before the camera shuts down.
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I'm more than happy for them to last long and then suddenly drop off... I'm gearing up for some KAP photos i'd rather have 6 hrs and instant fade than 1 hr and gradual... they are the best i've used but then I am obviously not that concerned about how well they last in stand by or with a flash.
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Those AA size Lithium cells have higher voltage compared to regular alkalines and a lot higher than NiMH, which probably fools the battery warning. I've never tried a pair, but don't be surprised if they end up being registered as empty-ish very little before the camera shuts down.
Yeah, they almost always give only a short warning before going dead, but that's just kinda' the nature of the beast. Their long life more than makes up for any misgivings about their short warning time.
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I get about 15 minutes on standard alkaline batteries. I thought it was really short too, so I actually exchanged the camera when I first noticed that (about 2 hours after buying it), and the replacement camera did the same thing. I put a set of 2500mAh rechargeables in the same camera, and got about the same result life wise give or take a few minutes.
I know this has been discussed at length, I just thought I'd add that roughly speaking, if those batteries really were using up 2500mAh of charge in 15 minutes, that'd be a current draw of 10 amps. That'd be one hot camera ;)
As I'm sure you know, battery voltage is a poor indicator of actual charge.