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Powershot S110 - precision sync?

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Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« on: 23 / February / 2014, 07:06:31 »
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Hi,

I have a pair of Powershot S110 and just want to do stereoscopic images.
Normally a good choice is to use SDM for that purpose.
But I need to get the source code because I want to connect a micro controller over USB to my S110s and therefor I need the source code.
Unfortunately the source code for latest version SDM 1.86 isn't available.
So my questions here:

1. My S110s have firmware 103a. Does the S110 need the precision sync? If yes is it available and activated in CHDK for 103e?   

2. To get two cams synchronized is there any difference between SDM and CHDK?

3. I only need two cameras synched for stereoscopic images. So this is the only feature I need (I don't need other features of SDM) Can I switch do CHDK or do I have disadvantages compared to SDM?

Thanks for any information...
2 x IXUS 860IS 100c
2 x Powershot S110 103a

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #1 on: 23 / February / 2014, 08:18:39 »
Unfortunately the source code for latest version SDM 1.86 isn't available.
FYI - SDM 1.86 contains GPL'd code.  The source should be available on request and I understand it has been made available on at least one occasion to someone who asked.  Note that once the resulting code is on public distribution, as 1.86 is, the GPL contains no language that permits the source not to be made available just because it's still in development.

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1. My S110s have firmware 103a. Does the S110 need the precision sync? If yes is it available and activated in CHDK for 103e?   
It might be needed but I don't believe anyone has tested and reported it here.  The necessary code is available in the 1.3.0 branch of CHDK but it needs to be enable on a "per camera" basis.  Doing so really only requires somebody to volunteer to test it as the CHDK dev's do not own every camera that is ported to CHDK.

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2. To get two cams synchronized is there any difference between SDM and CHDK?
No.  Despite what I've seem mentioned in the SDM Yahoo group about there being a difference,  I've looked at the code that implements sync (precision or standard) and it works exactly the same ways in both programs.

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3. I only need two cameras synched for stereoscopic images. So this is the only feature I need (I don't need other features of SDM) Can I switch do CHDK or do I have disadvantages compared to SDM?
Yes, you can switch to CHDK.   I can think of many advantages to doing so.  However, there are stereo image centric features of SDM that are not in CHDK  like right & left camera identification and some sort of OSD mirroring (IIRC).  You'd have to add them to CHDK is you really needed them (and maybe submit a patch file to get them added to the trunk?). 

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But I need to get the source code because I want to connect a micro controller over USB to my S110s and therefor I need the source code.
As you plan to communicate between a microcontroller and your camera,  you might find more existing code (including Lua script level capability) in CHDK and you will almost certainly find more technical support here if you need it. 

Link > http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Lua/PTP_Scripting
« Last Edit: 23 / February / 2014, 08:40:40 by waterwingz »
Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #2 on: 23 / February / 2014, 11:05:32 »
I understand it has been made available on at least one occasion

And as I mentioned to the impatient enquirer, it is in a state of constant change.

Already, it is totally different, especially the gui.

In fact, it is so different that it no longer works !

I will be returning to it once I get all my timelapse rigs built and installed.

The S110 has not been ported to SDM, someone is waiting for a test build.


Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #3 on: 23 / February / 2014, 11:26:07 »
Hi waterwingz,

thank for your quick reply.

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FYI - SDM 1.86 contains GPL'd code.  The source should be available on request and I understand it has been made available on at least one occasion to someone who asked.  Note that once the resulting code is on public distribution, as 1.86 is, the GPL contains no language that permits the source not to be made available just because it's still in development.

I fully agree - Since SDM is also GPL the source code should be available also in steps between new releases.

I think best for me would be to stick with CHDK, since the I save time until the cams get ported to SDM.
In my case the upside down menu is not that important, but I also believe it should be possible to change the code of CHDK to provide this feature as well.
In the next time I will start my development and my I find some time to look for it. Of course I will present any development to the community as this is the idea behind OpenSource and CHDK.

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It might be needed but I don't believe anyone has tested and reported it here.  The necessary code is available in the 1.3.0 branch of CHDK but it needs to be enable on a "per camera" basis.  Doing so really only requires somebody to volunteer to test it as the CHDK dev's do not own every camera that is ported to CHDK.

Since I have a pair of S110 at hand, how can I help to check if precision sync is needed? What I have to do exactly?
(I never did this before so some kind of step by step guide would be highly appreciated).
In around two weeks I will get an old cathode-ray monitor I think it will be needed - am I right?

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As you plan to communicate between a microcontroller and your camera,  you might find more existing code (including Lua script level capability) in CHDK and you will almost certainly find more technical support here if you need it. 

I am not familiar with lua scripting, since I am a C++ programmer, so I prefer to do things directly in the CHDK source code using C / C++.

@Microfunguy:

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Already, it is totally different, especially the gui.
In fact, it is so different that it no longer works !

What do you mean if you say it no longer works? What does not work any longer?

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The S110 has not been ported to SDM, someone is waiting for a test build.

I know, he is the owner of the german stereo forum, I am in contact with him and he needs the base version for S110 to start testing


2 x IXUS 860IS 100c
2 x Powershot S110 103a


Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #4 on: 23 / February / 2014, 11:36:03 »
Since I have a pair of S110 at hand, how can I help to check if precision sync is needed? What I have to do exactly?
In around two weeks I will get an old cathode-ray monitor I think it will be needed - am I right?
There are at least three ways to do this - with a CRT,  an oscilloscope, or with multiple LED's driven with a microcontroller.   As you are getting a CRT soon,  you should probably refer to this : http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/crt_synch.htm

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I am not familiar with lua scripting, since I am a C++ programmer, so I prefer to do things directly in the CHDK source code using C / C++.
Well, then step one is to put together a build environment and start compiling your own version. Have you done that yet?  Once that's running,  you can enable the precision sync code for your testing.  And start playing with ptp communications.

Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #5 on: 23 / February / 2014, 11:43:09 »
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Well, then step one is to put together a build environment and start compiling your own version. Have you done that yet?

I did this one time for SDM in the past. But for CHDK I need to do it again, I believe it is same.
Right now I create a new virtual machine using Windows 7 as development environment.
I think I will go again with Eclipse CDT - do you recommend it?

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There are at least three ways to do this - with a CRT,  an oscilloscope,

I also have an oscilloscope - but how to measure sync with it? To what signal I should connect the oscilloscope on both cams?
« Last Edit: 23 / February / 2014, 12:00:26 by mr.burns »
2 x IXUS 860IS 100c
2 x Powershot S110 103a

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #6 on: 23 / February / 2014, 12:18:47 »
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There are at least three ways to do this - with a CRT,  an oscilloscope,
I also have an oscilloscope - but how to measure sync with it? To what signal I should connect the oscilloscope on both cams?
Some useful links :
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=11058.msg108660#msg108660
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=8312.msg104040#msg104040
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=8312.msg104805#msg104805

While they mostly discuss testing sync with a single camera,  you can obviously use the same techniques to test a stereo rig.
Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #7 on: 05 / April / 2014, 12:05:44 »
Hi,

for anybody who is interested.
Now I finished first part of sync test with my two S110, see attached file.
I used the 'normal' stable release 1.2 english version.

The 2nd test I will do tomorrow.
I will compile the latest development build with precision sync switched on.

See you tomorrow ;-)
2 x IXUS 860IS 100c
2 x Powershot S110 103a


Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #8 on: 06 / April / 2014, 03:31:43 »
Quote from: attached file
Average Mis-Sync (ms):0.6329
Average Deviation:0.7189
Median Mis-Sync (ms)0.2028
Median Mis-Sync (1/xxx s)  4930
   
Does seem unusually accurate for standard sync with new cameras. Perhaps the S110 is a special case, and maybe precision sync isn't really needed as much?

I guess I will have to redo some sync tests with just the standard sync. I'm not sure I completely trust the trigger on my o-scope , so I'll just take a stereo-photo of the screen and see how much the dot moves between either camera.

Re: Powershot S110 - precision sync?
« Reply #9 on: 06 / April / 2014, 05:10:34 »

I guess I will have to redo some sync tests with just the standard sync.

I will ask my friend to do the same.

 

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