Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?

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Offline KenO

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Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« on: 06 / June / 2014, 11:04:38 »
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A friend just sent me a link to CINESTYLE PROFILE http://www.technicolor.com/en/solutions-services/cinestyle

Read "Harness the full potential of your DSLR Camera with Technicolor's CineStyle Profile - A FREE download that boosts the dynamic range in your camera. With the CineStyle profile installed on your DSLR, you can:
Create a unique Hollywood feel to your productions that matches the look and color capabilities of much more expensive equipment and processes.

Capture clips that can easily be color graded to match different cinematic styles from various sources and genres, including 35mm film.

Exploit a far greater dynamic color range when shooting in difficult lighting conditions.

Seamlessly intercut DSLR-based footage with content from other cinema-quality cameras such as RED, ARRI ALEXA, SONY and 35mm film." 

If it can do this, am very impressed!

Did a quick forum search but found nothing.  The closest was feature request a couple years ago.

Feature Requests / Video Manual Exposure; Shutter Speed for Video; Zebra for Video; Audio indicator
« by andreluisdealvarenga on 12 / October / 2012, 19:36:43 »

I have faith someone can figure out how to adapt CINESTYLE PROFILE or something like it to Canon P&S CHDK cameras!

Ken


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Offline reyalp

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #1 on: 06 / June / 2014, 16:22:36 »
A friend just sent me a link to CINESTYLE PROFILE
...
Once you parse through the marketing, what's left? As far as I can tell, it's just a color profile.

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I have faith someone can figure out how to adapt CINESTYLE PROFILE or something like it to Canon P&S CHDK cameras!

Ken
Currently, CHDK does not have modify video output like this, and there aren't any active developers who appear to be interested in video. So even if it is possible, your faith is likely misplaced.
Don't forget what the H stands for.

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Offline KenO

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #2 on: 06 / June / 2014, 17:29:03 »
Hi reyalp,

"Currently, CHDK does not have modify video output like this"  I only want to use it with single CHDK RAW photos (Not Video).

"Once you parse through the marketing, what's left? As far as I can tell, it's just a color profile."  I am not that technical so do not know what is hype and what is fact which is why posted.

I would be happy if it did "Exploit a far greater dynamic color range when shooting in difficult lighting conditions."

I would be interested in testing CINESTYLE PROFILE if it could work with CHDK Canon P&S cameras?  Then maybe we could tell how much is hype!

Ken



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Offline reyalp

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #3 on: 06 / June / 2014, 17:41:12 »
Hi reyalp,

"Currently, CHDK does not have modify video output like this"  I only want to use it with single CHDK RAW photos (Not Video).
Then you are in luck, you can apply any tone curve, color profile etc you want to raw files on your PC, no changes in CHDK needed.

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I would be happy if it did "Exploit a far greater dynamic color range when shooting in difficult lighting conditions."
That's uhh... marketing. For (non-raw) video, a color profile on the camera might actually give you more dynamic range, assuming it is applied before (or at the same time) the data is converted to the final video color depth.

If you are already shooting raw, then the raw file has all the dynamic range that existed in the original data. You aren't going to get more.
Don't forget what the H stands for.


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Offline KenO

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #4 on: 07 / June / 2014, 10:50:27 »
Hi reyalp,

Thanks again for your detailed explanation.

Since first posting checked the Magic Lantern Forum and found "There are no any advantages or disadvantages while recording raw, because picture styles are the matter of jpegs and h264, they don't affect raw." http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8508.0

Ken

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Offline KenO

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #5 on: 11 / June / 2014, 10:55:14 »
Hi reyalp,

Got a response from my friend (who sent me the original info and uses Nikon DSLRs) to your "If you are already shooting raw, then the raw file has all the dynamic range that existed in the original data. You aren't going to get more".

This concerns shooting Nikon RAW with Active D Lighting on "Current Gen ADL overrides your set brightness and contrast settings. In settings higher than "low", it also affects the actual exposure by adjusting aperture/shutter speed/ISO either alone or in combination depending on the exposure mode set. In manual exposure mode (no auto ISO) it only affects the meter and not the actual aperture/shutter speed/ISO....but will still affect the brightness, contrast, and tone curves. CaptureNX2 can reverse this in manual exposure mode with the raw file. Note though if shooting in other than full manual and ADL set to higher than "low"....the effects on actual exposure can not be un-done, even with the RAW file." http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3508898

Ken

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Offline reyalp

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #6 on: 11 / June / 2014, 23:40:06 »
Got a response from my friend (who sent me the original info and uses Nikon DSLRs) to your "If you are already shooting raw, then the raw file has all the dynamic range that existed in the original data. You aren't going to get more".

This concerns shooting Nikon RAW with Active D Lighting on "Current Gen ADL overrides your set brightness and contrast settings. In settings higher than "low", it also affects the actual exposure by adjusting aperture/shutter speed/ISO either alone or in combination depending on the exposure mode set. In manual exposure mode (no auto ISO) it only affects the meter and not the actual aperture/shutter speed/ISO....but will still affect the brightness, contrast, and tone curves. CaptureNX2 can reverse this in manual exposure mode with the raw file. Note though if shooting in other than full manual and ADL set to higher than "low"....the effects on actual exposure can not be un-done, even with the RAW file." http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3508898
Err... and? I don't see anything in that thread which contradicts what I said. By definition raw data is what was read out from the sensor. You won't get more dynamic range by post-processing.

If ADL actually creates a raw with more dynamic range (I doubt it) then either Nikon is doing something tricky with their hardware (like http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.0) , or their "raw" isn't actually raw. In either case, it's irrelevant to CHDK, and couldn't be duplicated by a color profile like Cinestyle.
Don't forget what the H stands for.

Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #7 on: 12 / June / 2014, 02:06:43 »
...

If ADL actually creates a raw with more dynamic range (I doubt it) then either Nikon is doing something tricky with their hardware (like http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.0) , or their "raw" isn't actually raw. In either case, it's irrelevant to CHDK, and couldn't be duplicated by a color profile like Cinestyle.

Thank you Reyalp for  that link. facinating. is dual ISO possible with CHDK. ?


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Offline blackhole

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #8 on: 12 / June / 2014, 10:08:56 »
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If ADL actually creates a raw with more dynamic range (I doubt it) then either Nikon is doing something tricky with their hardware (like http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.0) , or their "raw" isn't actually raw.
I think this is the closest to the truth.

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Offline reyalp

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Re: Cinestyle for CHDK RAW?
« Reply #9 on: 15 / June / 2014, 21:03:16 »
Thank you Reyalp for  that link. facinating. is dual ISO possible with CHDK. ?
Maybe? Someone would have to do the reverse engineering and try to implement it to find out.

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If ADL actually creates a raw with more dynamic range (I doubt it) then either Nikon is doing something tricky with their hardware (like http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.0) , or their "raw" isn't actually raw.
I think this is the closest to the truth.
My guess would be the ADL settings just get stored in Nikon's raw format, and some software knows what to do with it. From what I can gather ADL does affect the raw by changing the exposure (to prevent highlights from being clipped), but I don't see clear evidence that it changes the DR of the raw data.
Don't forget what the H stands for.

 

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