Camera wears during time-lapse photography

c_joerg

1147

« on: 08 / May / 2019, 11:38:54 »

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Here's a pretty interesting comparison of how flicker with SX50 increases. The plot shows the difference in 30000 and 52000 shots. The conditions were pretty much identical. The camera was in M mode at 1/100s, f6.3 and ISO100. Changes of 0.02EV are already visible in a video as flicker.

Flicker_SX50.png (177.43 kB, 2400x1800 - viewed 71 times.)

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
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Mlapse

310
S95 S110

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #1 on: 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11 »

could you elaborate a bit more on what conditions, settings and script you have used? reboot/lens retract/artificial-sun light etc.
if you are shooting with artificial light it could be due to the 50hz flicker in the lights, not specifically camera wear.
I've had several long runs without flicker (but with more dead pixels and possibly a less light sensitive sensor afterwards)

« Last Edit: 09 / May / 2019, 08:49:52 by Mlapse »

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frustration is a key ingredient in progress

c_joerg

1147

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #2 on: 09 / May / 2019, 09:53:38 »

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11

could you elaborate a bit more on what conditions,

Image attached.

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11

script you have used

The whole thing I did with a custom CHDK script with a Canon SX50. Just a simple interval. Between shots, the camera has switched to playback mode and cancel the retract timer.
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=13737.0

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11

settings

M mode at 1/100s, f6.3 and ISO100. No exposure control from script.

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11

if you are shooting with artificial light it could be due to the 50hz flicker in the lights, not specifically camera wear

Of course.
I used the same DC LED light on both runs. I would rule out the lighting here.

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 08:31:11

I've had several long runs without flicker

There are different sources of flicker. Once is the aperture flicker. Depending on the aperture this is different. With a script like rawopint you can totally avoid it. Because the aperture does not change as long the camera stays in “half press“.

https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=13737.0

Another source is the shutter. Normally, the flicker increases with shorter exposure times.

20190130_181806.jpg (1070.08 kB, 4032x3024 - viewed 59 times.)

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/136329431@N06/albums
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrTH0tHy9OYTVDzWIvXEMlw/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd

Mlapse

310
S95 S110

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #3 on: 09 / May / 2019, 10:13:16 »

Sorry, have no answers for you then.
Setting were minimal, so i'm guessing that did not influence it.

Quote

I used the same DC LED light on both runs. I would rule out the lighting here.

I'll take your word for it, since you state it is DC powered.
but my experience tells me I wouldn't rule that out without some tests if that dc powered thing is connected to an AC source.
because 50hz flicker has to do with timing, so it can be different with 2 runs and the same lightsouce.
and I'm guessing you did at least one (re)boot since it spanned 43 days.

did you try the same cam again to see if flicker remains the same as seen on the 53000 chart?

« Last Edit: 09 / May / 2019, 10:32:36 by Mlapse »

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frustration is a key ingredient in progress

c_joerg

1147

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #4 on: 09 / May / 2019, 11:15:43 »

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 10:13:16

but my experience tells me I wouldn't rule that out without some tests if that dc powered thing is connected to an AC source.

Here you can see the flickering with different light sources.
Reply #48
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12165.40

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 10:13:16

and I'm guessing you did at least one (re)boot since it spanned 43 days.

Yes, but manually after 24 days

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 10:13:16

did you try the same cam again to see if flicker remains the same as seen on the 53000 chart?

No. In the next winter, I will make similar recordings again...

« Last Edit: 09 / May / 2019, 11:29:26 by c_joerg »

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrTH0tHy9OYTVDzWIvXEMlw/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd

Mlapse

310
S95 S110

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #5 on: 09 / May / 2019, 12:16:09 »

all those light sources are ac connected and might more or less suffer from flicker.
the restart, maual or automatic, may have made timing slightly different, hence increasing or decreasing flicker as you see it in the pictures.
I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that that flicker is caused by electrical wear of one of the components.
but i can't come up with what component that is in the cam....exteral, if it aren't the lights, maybe a very poor AC-DC adapter that powers your camera?

If you want to be absolutely sure, use a battery pack for the lights or go outside to test if it still suffers from flicker.

the LED light will drop down about 0.3-0.5% max lumen@20C per degree temp rise, the sensor suffers from something similar(but i have no figures for those).
but that will never lead to flicker, at most to hardly visible darkening in consecutive shots umtil it reaches a stable temp.
really reducing lumen output shoudn't happen after a few month unless temp of the LED is above 70C.
since your scenes look well lit electrical noise should be low. so i'm rulling that out too.

« Last Edit: 09 / May / 2019, 12:48:22 by Mlapse »

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frustration is a key ingredient in progress

srsa_4c

4426

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #6 on: 09 / May / 2019, 12:41:10 »

LED lights are frequently driven by switching mode current generators. They might flicker at high frequencies.

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Menu jumping/flickering on M10?

Mlapse

310
S95 S110

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #7 on: 09 / May / 2019, 12:49:16 »

abolutely true, most will run at 50000-400000hz

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frustration is a key ingredient in progress

c_joerg

1147

Re: Camera wears during time-lapse photography

« Reply #8 on: 10 / May / 2019, 02:45:19 »

Quote from: Mlapse on 09 / May / 2019, 12:16:09

the LED light will drop down about 0.3-0.5% max lumen@20C per degree temp rise, the sensor suffers from something similar(but i have no figures for those).
but that will never lead to flicker, at most to hardly visible darkening in consecutive shots umtil it reaches a stable temp.
really reducing lumen output shoudn't happen after a few month unless temp of the LED is above 70C.

I have a very large temperature fluctuation (20-50 degrees) between day and night, because the recordings take place in a boiler room. This leads to my current structure that shifts the position of the recordings. Especially the Y position has a strong influence on it (+-8 Pixels).
But there is no correlation between flicker and temperature.

timelapse_movement_1.png (141.58 kB, 2400x1800 - viewed 55 times.)

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/136329431@N06/albums
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrTH0tHy9OYTVDzWIvXEMlw/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd