Flash hot shoe - override the switch - page 4 - General Discussion and Assistance

waterwingz

12092

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #30 on: 27 / September / 2014, 09:48:33 »

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Quote from: srsa_4c on 27 / September / 2014, 09:13:22

I still think the menu entry could have a better wording, and perhaps the code could be improved some way, so suggestions are welcome.

Menu wording can spark lots of debate - I guess that's why the person who codes it usually gets to pick what is used.

My suggestion would be to shorten Flash hot shoe occupied to simply Flash hot shoe . I think that the Auto/On/Off labels make that self explanatory - or at least no less clear than when the word occupied in added.

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koshy

1065

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #31 on: 27 / September / 2014, 12:23:30 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 27 / September / 2014, 09:13:22

I still think the menu entry could have a better wording, and perhaps the code could be improved some way, so suggestions are welcome.

I think I'd word it like the ND filter state.
So I pondered: Hot shoe state or Hot shoe override with values Off/Empty/Used
I'd put it on the Enhanced Photo Operations menu right with the other Flash related overrides and above ND filter state.

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Koshy had a little ELPH which wasn't white as snow but everywhere that Koshy went the ELPH was sure to go. (actually an SD, but that detail ruins the rhyme...)

srsa_4c

4426

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #32 on: 27 / September / 2014, 14:19:25 »

Quote from: waterwingz on 27 / September / 2014, 09:48:33

Flash hot shoe . I think that the Auto/On/Off labels make that self explanatory - or at least no less clear than when the word occupied in added.

Makes sense. The reason I chose "auto/on/off" is because these words won't be localized, foreign language users may find them easier to understand (they are commonly used). I then adapted the words of the menu entry to fit.

Quote from: koshy on 27 / September / 2014, 12:23:30

I'd put it on the Enhanced Photo Operations menu right with the other Flash related overrides and above ND filter state.

The reason I put it elsewhere is that this isn't strictly a photo related option. I agree though that having all flash related settings in one place is good.

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waterwingz

12092

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #33 on: 27 / September / 2014, 14:23:30 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 27 / September / 2014, 14:19:25

Quote from: koshy on 27 / September / 2014, 12:23:30
I'd put it on the Enhanced Photo Operations menu right with the other Flash related overrides and above ND filter state.
The reason I put it elsewhere is that this isn't strictly a photo related option. I agree though that having all flash related settings in one place is good.

I like this idea too. I actually struggled to find the menu option when I tested the SX50. Okay, it was not a big struggle but it did get me thinking along the same lines as koshy.

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philmoz

3332

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #34 on: 27 / September / 2014, 18:22:07 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 27 / September / 2014, 09:13:22

Quote from: koshy on 23 / September / 2014, 20:41:02
I tested it and G7 also works correctly when 'Flash hot shoe occupied' is set to 'Off'.
Thx for that too.

Since there are now a handful of tested cameras, should this feature be made official? I still think the menu entry could have a better wording, and perhaps the code could be improved some way, so suggestions are welcome.

Somebody with an sx20 could experiment with this, otherwise this override alone won't work on that model.

I'd suggest 'Hotshoe switch override' for the menu text, and move it to the 'Extra Photo Operations' menu (with the other flash overrides). Having both 'flash' and 'hotshoe' in the text seems redundant (what other hotshoe is there?).

I'm not sure about the menu text for the various options - the current values are confusing to me in that they don't really reflect what is happening (IMO).

For the menu options perhaps we could use:
- Off (no override)
- Open (switch forced off)
- Closed (switch forced on)

Another suggestion that might make it easier to understand would be to use two-variable (bool for override enable / disable and an int for the forced state). The menu entry could then be a MENUITEM_STATE_VAL_PAIR so it shows with both the checkbox and value in the menu.

Phil.

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CHDK ports:
sx30is (1.00c, 1.00h, 1.00l, 1.00n & 1.00p)
g12 (1.00c, 1.00e, 1.00f & 1.00g)
sx130is (1.01d & 1.01f)
ixus310hs (1.00a & 1.01a)
sx40hs (1.00d, 1.00g & 1.00i)
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g5x (1.00c, 1.01a, 1.01b)
g7x2 (1.01a, 1.01b, 1.10b)

waterwingz

12092

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #35 on: 27 / September / 2014, 18:31:00 »

Editorial Comment : these semantics discussions may seem trivial to those who have been using CHDK for years. But they really are worth the effort.

For example, I recently discovered the CHDK GPS menu for my S100 and (with all due respect to the author) I realized I'm going to have to read the code to figure out what it does. Staring at the menu entries does not tell me a lot.

(Once I figure it out, I'll update the wiki user manual of course.)

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philmoz

3332

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #36 on: 27 / September / 2014, 18:37:00 »

Quote from: waterwingz on 27 / September / 2014, 18:31:00

For example, I recently discovered the CHDK GPS menu for my S100 and (with all due respect to the author) I realized I'm going to have to read the code to figure out what it does. Staring at the menu entries does not tell me a lot.

The GPS code should probably be in a module, so while you're in there...

Phil.

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srsa_4c

4426

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #37 on: 27 / September / 2014, 19:06:28 »

Quote from: philmoz on 27 / September / 2014, 18:22:07

I'd suggest 'Hotshoe switch override' for the menu text, and move it to the 'Extra Photo Operations' menu (with the other flash overrides). Having both 'flash' and 'hotshoe' in the text seems redundant (what other hotshoe is there?).

You're right of course. The issue with 'Hotshoe switch override' is that people may not know that there is a switch inside the hot shoe (that's just a tech detail).

Quote

I'm not sure about the menu text for the various options - the current values are confusing to me in that they don't really reflect what is happening (IMO).

I wanted the options to be "simple English" and that sacrificed intelligibility.
I'm now considering the usage of localized strings for the options...

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srsa_4c

4426

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #38 on: 04 / October / 2014, 10:26:47 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 27 / September / 2014, 19:06:28

I'm now considering the usage of localized strings for the options...

New iteration, the only change is the location of the menu item and its wording. It's now fully localized.

Current wording is

Hotshoe override [Off/Empty/In use]

Since using language strings in enums has some overhead (needs a separate function), would it be possible to use enums that consist of language string IDs?

Quote from: philmoz on 27 / September / 2014, 18:22:07

Another suggestion that might make it easier to understand would be to use two-variable (bool for override enable / disable and an int for the forced state). The menu entry could then be a MENUITEM_STATE_VAL_PAIR so it shows with both the checkbox and value in the menu.

That would look better, but it would require an additional conf variable (waste of space for 2 bits of data IMHO) and additional RAM.

I hereby give permission to anyone to check this in - either in modified or unmodified form.

hotshoe_override_v3_.diff (13.42 kB - downloaded 20 times.)

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koshy

1065

Re: Flash hot shoe - override the switch

« Reply #39 on: 04 / October / 2014, 17:06:07 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 04 / October / 2014, 10:26:47

Current wording is

Hotshoe override [Off/Empty/In use]

I like the new wording an menu location.

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Koshy had a little ELPH which wasn't white as snow but everywhere that Koshy went the ELPH was sure to go. (actually an SD, but that detail ruins the rhyme...)