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Strange SD-Card Behavior

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Offline Peter Machtschuß

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Strange SD-Card Behavior
« on: 20 / January / 2015, 16:18:28 »
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I encountered the following problem:

I use 2 Cameras (A480, FW 100b)  and 2 16 GB SD cards with CHDK 1.3 (both Kingston, same type)

Cam 1 + SD 1 works fine
Cam 2 + SD 2 works fine

now changing the cards

Cam 1 + SD2 works fine, as could be expected
Cam 2 + SD1 does not work!

When starting CHDK by updating firmware this message is shown:
"ERROR. MISSING MODULES"
The original Cam firmware shows "Memory Card Error"

I tried a lot with SD1, formatting (Windows, CardTricks, in the camera), erasing (SDFormatter). Nothing helped.

Anyone an idea what's the reason?

PS: Checked the Card with two further A480 --> works.
« Last Edit: 20 / January / 2015, 16:37:47 by Peter Machtschuß »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #1 on: 20 / January / 2015, 16:39:53 »
This is very strange. It's hard to see any plausible way identical firmwares would behave differently with the same card.

The "module not available" warning is a check done at startup which looks for the file selector module (A/CHDK/MODULES/FSELECT.FLT)

If it isn't present, we assume CHDK isn't correctly installed and show the warning.

Can you use the file browser on the combination that gives the warning? I would expect not, but there could be some kind of timing issue.

Are you using multi-partition cards? It's not uncommon for people to get the modules on the wrong partition, but this shouldn't be affected by swapping cameras.

If one card had problems with the SD lock switch, you could get one auto-booting and the other not, but I expect this would be obvious.

edit:
Another "strange SD behavior" thread http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12097.0
« Last Edit: 20 / January / 2015, 16:48:11 by reyalp »
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Offline Peter Machtschuß

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #2 on: 20 / January / 2015, 16:48:00 »
CHDK menu works (tested only a bit), file browser does not start.

When the error message is shown,  for only a second the camera message "Card locked!" is shown.

Card is not locked, only one partition.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #3 on: 20 / January / 2015, 16:53:02 »
Quote from: Peter Machtschuß on 20 / January / 2015, 16:48:00
CHDK menu works (tested only a bit), file browser does not start.
Do any of the other module base features work, like script, calendar or games?
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When the error message is shown,  for only a second the camera message "Card locked!" is shown.
Card is not locked, only one partition.
The card locked message showing suggests that this combination of card and camera doesn't reliably detect the lock. This is affected both by the physical shape of the plastic bit on the card and the switch in the camera that senses it, so showing up with only one card/camera combo makes sense.

Not sure how that would relate to the other observed symptoms, but if the camera was seeing it repeatedly go on and off I wouldn't be surprised if that confused things.
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Offline Peter Machtschuß

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #4 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:05:25 »
Solved!  :D

When I lock the SD card everything works.
Obviously there is something wrong with the lock switch within the camera.

The lock swithes of both cards look exactly the same (by eye).
IIRC the camera detects the lock switch at the not-locked position. But even using a layer of two adhesive tapes over the switch did not help.

Thanks for your quick help!
« Last Edit: 20 / January / 2015, 17:08:24 by Peter Machtschuß »
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Offline srsa_4c

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #5 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:08:43 »
@reyalp
How about the "idle cycle" comment in loader?
Some ports have this:
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// increased from 8000 to F0000 for extra delay for sx200 maybe could be 10000 ?
The a480 has the original value (0x8000), and also pokes an MMIO before.
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Offline srsa_4c

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #6 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:21:43 »
@Peter Machtschuß
Are you willing to try a test version? We don't everyday get people with this kind of card issue.
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Offline Peter Machtschuß

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #7 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:27:07 »
Quote from: srsa_4c on 20 / January / 2015, 17:21:43
Are you willing to try a test version?

Yes, of course!
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Offline srsa_4c

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #8 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:35:48 »
Quote from: Peter Machtschuß on 20 / January / 2015, 17:27:07
Quote from: srsa_4c on 20 / January / 2015, 17:21:43
Are you willing to try a test version?

Yes, of course!
Uploaded a test version that doubles the delay before CHDK start (mentioned in my previous post). Please try the fw update boot with it: http://filebin.net/dwk8y7dt2x
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Offline Peter Machtschuß

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Re: Strange SD-Card Behavior
« Reply #9 on: 20 / January / 2015, 17:59:12 »
Didn't work. Same error.

There is a difference between the two cameras and a difference between the two cards.

The difference in the card is either the mechanical dimensions (some 1/10 th of a mm ????) or a difference in speed, maybe?

The difference between the cameras is either the mechancal switch or (if the card speed is the reason) again a timing problem. Different processor speed? Different firmware? Any minor hardware/firmware error?

Please feel free to send some files for testing. I'm lucky to help understanding the problem.

Thanks a lot!






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