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Using different camera models (3d scanner)

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Offline 3dcanon

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Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« on: 21 / April / 2015, 05:48:24 »
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Hi,

i want to build a 3dscan booth with 64 cameras but can not find all 64 cameras of the same model from the suppliers. Is it possible to control different models at the same time? For example:

10x A1400
20x A2200
10x A2600
10x A1000
14x A3300

I can build a mesh with one model (a2600), but never test it with different model cameras in one chunk.
Is it possible to capture images from all the different powershot cams and then reconstruct the 3d with lets say recap or agisoft? What would be the cons of this setup? Can i simply take image from all of them at once, even if they are different models with different firmwares?

Thanks in advance for your time..
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #1 on: 21 / April / 2015, 08:09:33 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 05:48:24
Is it possible to control different models at the same time?
Yes.

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Is it possible to capture images from all the different powershot cams and then reconstruct the 3d with lets say recap or agisoft?
Sorry - don't know enough about those programs to comment.  But a quick google produced this ,  which suggests it can be done with proper calibration.

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Can i simply take image from all of them at once, even if they are different models with different firmwares?
Yes.
« Last Edit: 21 / April / 2015, 08:17:18 by waterwingz »
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline 3dcanon

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #2 on: 21 / April / 2015, 14:14:16 »
Hey waterwingz!

Thank you so much for your reply.
I understand now that all i need to do is to calibrate the focal lengths for each camera model in agisoft etc.

One more question: ( i am sure its answered a billion of times here, but i simply can't use the SE right :/ )

How many cameras i can connect max. on one core i7 with 16gb ram PC and enough self powered usb hubs? Can i connect all 64 cams to one PC or do i have to divide them to 2 or 3 networked PC's?

Thanks again for your time.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #3 on: 21 / April / 2015, 14:33:31 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 14:14:16
How many cameras i can connect max. on one core i7 with 16gb ram PC and enough self powered usb hubs? Can i connect all 64 cams to one PC or do i have to divide them to 2 or 3 networked PC's?
I can't recall that we decided what the limit was but I don't think 64 would be a problem.

 reyalp might be able to provide better information when he is next online.
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #4 on: 21 / April / 2015, 16:42:57 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 14:14:16
How many cameras i can connect max. on one core i7 with 16gb ram PC and enough self powered usb hubs? Can i connect all 64 cams to one PC or do i have to divide them to 2 or 3 networked PC's?
In theory, each host controller can support up to 127 devices, and most PCs have more than one controller so the just number of cameras shouldn't be a problem.

Whether it will actually work in your specific application is a different question, which can probably only be answered by trying it. I believe a few other people have successfully used similar sized rigs. http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Multiple_Cameras_using_CHDK should have links to thread discussing some of these rigs.

Using multiple different models will cause some complications. I don't know how much of an issue this is from the image processing side, but things like updating the chdk builds or manipulating settings from script will be more difficult. Having cameras of the same model with different canon firmwares will also complicate managing the CHDK builds, but not the settings.

I would suggest before going out and buying all the cameras, you start developing your rig with a smaller number, say get 10 of one model and one or two each of the others. You shouldn't need to full number of cameras to do most of your development, and if it turns out to be too much of a hassle to use different models, you won't lose as much. If you do find you need to use a single mode, you can probably pick up more cameras over time.
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Offline 3dcanon

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #5 on: 21 / April / 2015, 18:45:53 »
So far i understand that 64 cameras will not make problems on one PC. That's really cool!

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things like updating the chdk builds or manipulating settings from script will be more difficult
I don't think i will update the builds always, i will try to stick permanently with working builds,  so i can skip that one i guess.
But the manipulation of the settings will be a headache, if i have to do it 5-6 times for each camera model, and  until i find the correct settings for all of them, this could be quite a horror with 64+ cameras.

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I would suggest before going out and buying all the cameras, you start developing your rig with a smaller number, say get 10 of one model and one or two each of the others.
This is a good idea. Problem is, if i find out that multiple-camera-models not works as easy as i hope, then i have to buy the same model for 64 cameras and i really have difficulties to find the same model with that much of quantities... Especially if they are older models which supports CHDK :((

I hope i will find a way out, and maybe in the meantime, if someone tested already the multi-model-camera-rig, please reply your experiences here. Thanks.

Edit: What i can find here in large quantitites is the IXUS145, but upon my research on the Forum i could not find a working port already. Maybe i could not find the release?
« Last Edit: 21 / April / 2015, 18:56:27 by 3dcanon »
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #6 on: 21 / April / 2015, 19:39:24 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 18:45:53
But the manipulation of the settings will be a headache, if i have to do it 5-6 times for each camera model, and  until i find the correct settings for all of them, this could be quite a horror with 64+ cameras.
This may not be a headache if your settings are the same for every cameras.  For example, things like shutter speed and ISO sensitivity are likely to be the same for every camera and so there is no reason to manage  them individually.

Editorial Comment : I think this may be one more use case where my idea about having unique CHDK serial numbers for each camera would have value in maintaining the system :  Unique Camera ID Numbers needed for multi-camera rigs ?

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This is a good idea. Problem is, if i find out that multiple-camera-models not works as easy as i hope, then i have to buy the same model for 64 cameras and i really have difficulties to find the same model with that much of quantities... Especially if they are older models which supports CHDK :((
If you can stick to two or three models that would help then..

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I hope i will find a way out, and maybe in the meantime, if someone tested already the multi-model-camera-rig, please reply your experiences here. Thanks.
There is not a lot of daily traffic on this forum.  You would probably be better off reading some of the other multicamera threads from the last couple of years.  Reyalp posted a link to the wiki page for mulitcam rigs - links to many forum threads are down at the bottom of that page.

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Edit: What i can find here in large quantitites is the IXUS145, but upon my research on the Forum i could not find a working port already. Maybe i could not find the release?
There is a lot of work going on right now to port the ixus160_elph160 - a currently available low cost camera suitable for book scanners.  IXUS160/ELPH160 Porting attempt  While work is not yet complete,  it seems this will likely be then next CHDK supported camera.
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #7 on: 21 / April / 2015, 22:58:37 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 18:45:53
But the manipulation of the settings will be a headache, if i have to do it 5-6 times for each camera model, and  until i find the correct settings for all of them, this could be quite a horror with 64+ cameras.
As waterwingz says, it's possible you won't need any different settings between cameras, but the risk wouldn't be there at all if you used identical cameras. You won't know for sure until you do it.

There are ways to deal with model specific settings, for example using chdkptp muticam.lua it should be possible to select a sub-set of cameras by product ID. It won't be as convenient as identical cameras though.
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Offline Hardware_Hacker

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #8 on: 21 / April / 2015, 23:01:31 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 05:48:24
I want to build a 3dscan booth with 64 cameras but can not find ....
The  (~aprox. 70~) Powershot A450 and A460 cameras originaly used in Zcream's
"Setup for CHDK matrix bullet-time rig"
 here http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=4103.msg38360#msg38360
 and in Reply #114 on: 22/October/2014 http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=4103.msg117749#msg117749

They are still available if anyone wants to construct a cheap and basic mutiple-camera 3D rig.
Currently they are located in Sydney Australia and "Most" also now have CHDK 1v3 on the
16mb to 2Gig Sd Cards. There is also some cameras that are ueefull for "Spares" .

To contact zcream, for more details, try his web site which is still available.

H-H
« Last Edit: 21 / April / 2015, 23:09:46 by Hardware_Hacker »
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Offline Hardware_Hacker

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #9 on: 21 / April / 2015, 23:19:00 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 05:48:24
I want to build a 3dscan booth with 64 cameras ....

I think that you should "Budget" for some "Extra" cameras in your rig:-

1/ An "Overhead Camera" that also captures the "Plan View" point. i.e "65 Cameras".

2/ About 4 to 8 extra Cameras that are converted to "Infrared" with "Internal" or "External" infrared filters.

3/ Yould could also try the new and expensive "590nm Super Color IR Infrared" filters that have "False Colours".

One of the the "Many Problems" with 3dscan booth rigs it is sometimes necessary to have "Noise" or
some form of "Grid Pattern" to improve the 3D Capture.

Usually this is acheved with two shoots, as close together as possible, so as to avoide any "Subject" movements.

By using  Infared "Noise" or "Grid" only a single shot would then be needed, however the "Post-Processing"
is then more complicated.

H-H

Edit #1 attached file, source from a "Projection_PhotoScan" pdf document
« Last Edit: 22 / April / 2015, 00:19:08 by Hardware_Hacker »
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