Using different camera models (3d scanner) - page 2 - General Discussion and Assistance - CHDK Forum
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Using different camera models (3d scanner)

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Offline Hardware_Hacker

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #10 on: 22 / April / 2015, 00:29:59 »
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Edit: What i can find here in large quantitites is the IXUS145, but upon my research on the Forum i could not find a working port already. Maybe i could not find the release?
 
There is a lot of work going on right now to port the ixus160_elph160 - a currently available low cost camera suitable for book scanners.  IXUS160/ELPH160 Porting attempt  While work is not yet complete,  it seems this will likely be then next CHDK supported camera.
Currently the Ixus 145 is "Generaly" on "Run-Out" special and it is still
ocasionaly avaliabe at "Super Discouned" prices a recent example was
a one-off Christmas discount at $au20 each.

H-H
« Last Edit: 22 / April / 2015, 00:40:15 by Hardware_Hacker »
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Offline Hardware_Hacker

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #11 on: 22 / April / 2015, 00:49:12 »
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 05:48:24
i want to build a 3dscan booth with 64 cameras....

What would be the cons of this setup?
 
Can i simply take image from all of them at once, even if they are different models with different firmwares?
Some Rig Design Points to Consider:-

# Maximuim Length of USB-2 cable runs, the limit is about 5 meters.
# Location of and the Number of Ports in your USB-2 Hubs.
# Possible Use of "Active" USB-2 Hubs and the use of Sheilded Cat-6 cables.
# Grounding & Sheilding of USB-2 Cables.
# Termination, Grounding & Sheilding of the Common "Shoot" Cable; if used.
# Grounding & Sheilding of the Power Cabling.

A good Multi-Camera wiring practice is to seperate the "Camera-Control" from the  "Camera-Power"
circuits this is very important if you plan on mains power for the multi-camera rig. There some simple
"Industry Standard" things you can do to help minimise this problem.

To save costs the vendors, including the "Canon" versions of mains based power supplies have not
installed sufficent filtering. Besides saving on the missing components the reason is very simple, they
assume that only "ONE" camera will be used AND "RELY" on the Canon Camera Power Manamagement IC
to take the place of a "Low Internal Resistance" Battery. To put this more "Simply" the more cameras you
have in your multi-camera rig the "Camera Power" Cable runs will become longer and, as a direct result,
will have a "Higher Internal Resistance".

Just consider a "Single Camera" DON'T just assume that it will draw a fairy constant "Current" from your
"Fake" battery the actual current varies greatly according to many different factors.

So with a combination of, "Poor Wiring", "Multiple-Cameras", and "Long Cable Runs"  in your rig 
 can then very easily become "Un-Reliable". It's then very easy to blame something such as a
USB-Brand for causing your wiring problems.

An Idea that I am working on is to have a slightly more advanced "Fake Battery" adaptors that also
have the required missing components, I also think that there are some other fairly simple and cheap options.

Another simple thing to do is to attempt to measure some of this stuff ... with a old or oblesete PC etc.

H-H

Ref:- http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Multiple_Cameras_using_CHDK

Edit  Also See attached "Bug Splatter" a560 Camera Battery and Current Measurments
« Last Edit: 29 / April / 2015, 02:44:46 by Hardware_Hacker »
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Offline andrew.stephens.754365

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #12 on: 22 / April / 2015, 10:48:36 »
3dcanon,

attached is a pretty awful power connection diagram that I have on disk - among other things, it doesn't address safety but it may be useful.

I suspect the 0V power pin on the USB jack WILL  all be connected to the 0V line from the powerpacks.
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Offline andrew.stephens.754365

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #13 on: 22 / April / 2015, 11:34:34 »
Quote from: reyalp on 21 / April / 2015, 16:42:57
Quote from: 3dcanon on 21 / April / 2015, 14:14:16
How many cameras i can connect max. on one core i7 with 16gb ram PC and enough self powered usb hubs? Can i connect all 64 cams to one PC or do i have to divide them to 2 or 3 networked PC's?
In theory, each host controller can support up to 127 devices, and most PCs have more than one controller so the just number of cameras shouldn't be a problem.

Is it understood, in theory, if that means chdkptp can be used to "connect to" cameras on multiple host controllers?
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #14 on: 22 / April / 2015, 15:52:33 »
Quote from: andrew.stephens.754365 on 22 / April / 2015, 11:34:34
Is it understood, in theory, if that means chdkptp can be used to "connect to" cameras on multiple host controllers?
Yes, devices being on different host controllers should have no impact on chdkptp.

That said, using hundreds of USB devices is not a very common scenario, so it would not be a huge surprise to encounter bugs.
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Offline andrew.stephens.754365

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #15 on: 22 / April / 2015, 16:16:28 »
Thanks reyalp - I had thought the opposite all this time!

3dcanon,

in case you are not aware there are a couple of absolute must read multicam threads, starting at:

http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=11667.msg114307#msg114307
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=11583.msg113395#msg113395

fmi only reminder -> mixing chdkptp/sharpshooter dslr http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12263.msg120856#msg120856
« Last Edit: 22 / April / 2015, 16:19:29 by andrew.stephens.754365 »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #16 on: 22 / April / 2015, 16:30:14 »
Quote from: andrew.stephens.754365 on 22 / April / 2015, 16:16:28
Thanks reyalp - I had been thought the opposite all this time!
Just to be clear, the "host controller" is the USB controller on your PC (or other USB host device). Most PCs have more than one, generally with several physical USB ports connected to each. These may show up as different "bus" numbers under linux, but as far as I can tell doesn't under libusb-win32.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #17 on: 22 / April / 2015, 17:51:38 »
Quote from: andrew.stephens.754365 on 22 / April / 2015, 16:16:28
in case you are not aware there are a couple of absolute must read multicam threads, starting at:
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=11667.msg114307#msg114307
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=11583.msg113395#msg113395
The wiki page that reyalp linked earlier in this thread contains those links and many more multicam threads :Multiple_Cameras_using_CHDK
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Offline 3dcanon

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #18 on: 23 / April / 2015, 19:23:14 »
Sorry for late reply and thanks for all suggestions. Quite busy these days with another project running at the moment. But i am in the meantime trying to get the rig to be alive soon.
I am so happy that the community is so active and helpful. Thank you really so much for all your help!


Quote from: waterwingz
Editorial Comment : I think this may be one more use case where my idea about having unique CHDK serial numbers for each camera would have value in maintaining the system :  Unique Camera ID Numbers needed for multi-camera rigs ?
I agree on that totally!

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If you can stick to two or three models that would help then..
Yes that could be easier to handle.

Quote
Reyalp posted a link to the wiki page for mulitcam rigs - links to many forum threads are down at the bottom of that page.
i checked that pages already a month ago, unfortunately i could not find a multi camera model setup. Maybe i looked too fast trough the threads, but i will check again.

Quote
There is a lot of work going on right now to port the ixus160_elph160 - a currently available low cost camera suitable for book scanners.  IXUS160/ELPH160 Porting attempt  While work is not yet complete,  it seems this will likely be then next CHDK supported camera.
The ixus160 looks promising. I will have to decide for some model soon. Will report here when i finally make my decision.

Quote from: reyalp
As waterwingz says, it's possible you won't need any different settings between cameras, but the risk wouldn't be there at all if you used identical cameras. You won't know for sure until you do it.
Exactly: Doing is learning ;) I am planning to buy a couple of second hand cameras to pass the test and decide for the best way i think...

Quote from: Hardware_Hacker
One of the the "Many Problems" with 3dscan booth rigs it is sometimes necessary to have "Noise" or
some form of "Grid Pattern" to improve the 3D Capture.
I did also already a test with projected and unprojected shots a while ago, and you are right: It is almost necessary to use projected images for mesh creation and unprojected ones for the final texture data.

Actually i was aware of this technique on a site where a guy uses raspi's and its 5mp cameras. The picture you attached is looking very similar to his setup. I am not sure of the quality of the raspi cam, so i guess the compact camera version is much more secure for HQ pics and mesh/texture processing but also for the image quality & exposure. There is simply too much difference between a 5mp and a 16mp cam.
I love the idea he used with the ethernet connection though, as i simply hate USB for cabling and the 5mt limit is annoying. But since there is no ethernet for canon's, i will stick to CHDK & USB.

I wonder btw, if it would be possible to develop an usb to ethernet interface for CHDK. Then all pain should be gone with usb cabling. All cameras could have unique IP addresses and simply connected to an ethernet splitter. Different models could be on a different subnet etc.

Quote
Currently the Ixus 145 is "Generaly" on "Run-Out" special and it is still
ocasionaly avaliabe at "Super Discouned" prices a recent example was
a one-off Christmas discount at $au20 each.
I wish i could order this special christmas cams :/

Quote
# Maximuim Length of USB-2 cable runs, the limit is about 5 meters.
# Location of and the Number of Ports in your USB-2 Hubs.
# Possible Use of "Active" USB-2 Hubs and the use of Sheilded Cat-6 cables.
# Grounding & Sheilding of USB-2 Cables.
# Termination, Grounding & Sheilding of the Common "Shoot" Cable; if used.
# Grounding & Sheilding of the Power Cabling.
Thanks for the hints! I will definitely need this when i start to build the rig. Noticed.


Quote from: andrew.stephens.754365
attached is a pretty awful power connection diagram that I have on disk - among other things, it doesn't address safety but it may be useful.
Thank you very much Andrew! Definitely useful.


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Offline andrew.stephens.754365

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Re: Using different camera models (3d scanner)
« Reply #19 on: 23 / April / 2015, 22:17:10 »
They get pretty close in with those rpi's. With 100 of them and seeming quick capture of 2 sequential frames in led light for first and that turned down some to let the 2nd projection picture work it does seem like a nice setup. 

Not yet tried - but I was pointed at a 10metre CAT5e AWG24 being successfully used for USB extension.
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