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Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations

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Offline MarkB

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Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« on: 21 / February / 2016, 12:14:46 »
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Hi

I haven't been active on this board for about a year and a half.  I was playing around with CHDK to do time lapse on an Elph300HS, but between flickering and focus issues I couldn't resolve I ended up giving up on it. 

I have now loaded CHDK  onto an  S110 and so far the tests have been quite promising.  I have posted my tests to youtube




On all three tests I used the script interval.lua, figured start as simple as possible to start.  The camera was set to AV mode and one point AF Frame and Centre Weight metering.  On tests 1 and 2 I set the ISO.  On test 3 I set AutoISO with Rate of Change set to Standard since it was sunset (unfortunately my balcony faces the wrong way to see the sun but its just a test).  I was pleased with the results, though might experiment with the Rate of Change to fast or slow to see if the results are any better.

Now my question is does anyone else have experience doing time lapse with this camera, or any of the other ones that have an adjustable aperture.  I think the lack of an aperture in the Elph300HS was part of my problem with that camera.  If so what setting do you use to get the best results?  Does anyone use the Manual Focus option with the camera?

Seeing how the sunset I shot came out I am wondering if there is a need to use some of the more advanced scripts like YASS4.lua or AUTOXP3.lua  etc?  Or would the results be similar?

The ND  filter in this camera is manually set.  Is there a script that would automate it so that for daytime it would be in to keep the ISO low, but as is starts to get dark it would move out to allow for more exposure?

Thanks for any advice or help

Mark
« Last Edit: 22 / February / 2016, 01:34:39 by MarkB »
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Offline c_joerg

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Re: Canon S110 Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: 21 / February / 2016, 12:51:07 »
My Recommendations for time-lapse is rawopint:
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12697.msg125978#new
Have you tried it? I’m using it with my G1x, S110, SX230, SX50 and IXUS160 and I’m really happy with it. Here are my latest examples:
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12761.0
If you follow my YouTube channel, you will also see a couple of S110 Videos.
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: 21 / February / 2016, 18:26:15 »
Thank you for the response c_joerg.  I was not even aware of that script.  I will have to play around with it in the coming weeks.  It might address the issue I had in a test I ran earlier today.


I set the interval in Interval.lua to 1 second, and this seems to be too fast for the camera and script to deal with.  Looking at the capture times of the images it appears that the fastest the script/camera could achieve was 1 shot every 2 ½ seconds.  I also noticed some flickering especially when clouds were covering the sun, I am wondering if this was because the camera was too rushed and not setting the exposure properly.  It appears that with this script/camera combo, a 3 second interval might be the quickest one possible to get consistent results.

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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: 22 / February / 2016, 01:50:07 »
Another sunset test,


Same as the previous one I did, interval.lua 3 sec AV f7.1 AutoISO, the difference being this time I set Rate of Change to fast.  With this I found the jumps in exposure to be more pronounced than with Rate of Change set to standard.  Will try slow in my text test of a sunset or sunrise to see how it compares.

Wondering if the Exposure Ramp in a script like YASS4.lua is more advanced  or smoother that the AutoISO built into the camera. Also would a script like that override the exposure settings i.e. F stop that I physically set on the camera?

Thanks for any input

Mark
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Offline c_joerg

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: 22 / February / 2016, 05:29:18 »
You have not used rawopint until now or?

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set the interval in Interval.lua to 1 second, and this seems to be too fast for the camera and script to deal with.  Looking at the capture times of the images it appears that the fastest the script/camera could achieve was 1 shot every 2 ½ seconds.
 

You have to avoid intervals, which are smaller than, what the camera can. This gives you a non-continuous moving (jitter) in the video. Rawopint can give you much faster intervals because it can run also in continuous mode from your camera.

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I also noticed some flickering especially when clouds were covering the sun, I am wondering if this was because the camera was too rushed and not setting the exposure properly.  It appears that with this script/camera combo, a 3 second interval might be the quickest one possible to get consistent results.

Of course! Any automatic exposure of your camera will you give exposure jumps from 1/3 EV steps. Rawopint can change the exposure in 1/96EV steps. So much smoother. I think rawopint is the only script which provides this right now. The following video shows you the different between 1/3EV steps and 1/96EV.


http://youtu.be/dsEw2cKN9KQ
 
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M100 100a, M3 101a, 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), 2*S45,
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrTH0tHy9OYTVDzWIvXEMlw/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: 23 / February / 2016, 01:07:06 »

No I have not used rawpoint  yet.  After watching your  video on the expose steps I am very much interested in trying it out.  I will load it onto my SD card tonight.

Thanks for Sharing

Mark
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: 28 / February / 2016, 15:27:11 »
Tried my first time lapse using rawopint.lua.  Used the default setting, other than saving as jpeg's only at M1 size.  Results look good so far.   The flashes at the beginning are exposures I took before I started the script and I should have edited them out of the video.  Sorry for the same boring view off my balcony, but hey I am just testing to see if I can get this to work consistently.




The sequence started while it was cloudy which explains the image looking flat, but I think it still does as the light changes, is this a by product of this script?  There are a lot of variables in this script, that I still don't quite understand yet.  Will have to experiment more.  Any help or pointers would be much appreciated.  I don't have much coding skill, but I am happy to test things out when I have the time.


I have included the log in case anyone is interested.


Mark
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: 28 / February / 2016, 16:47:09 »
Quote from: MarkB on 28 / February / 2016, 15:27:11
The sequence started while it was cloudy which explains the image looking flat, but I think it still does as the light changes, is this a by product of this script?
The script cant really affect the "flatness" of the image in the sense of dynamic range or curves, it only controls the exposure. So when you are thinking about adjusting something, you should think in terms of how you would want the exposure to be different at a given point. If you can identify that, I may be able to tell you which knobs to adjust.

I think the frames when the sun is out look pretty well exposed, but agree it looks kinda flat.

On a scene like this where the sky covers a fair bit of the meter area, you might want to start with a small (+1/4 to +1/2) Ev shift, since in general sky should be brighter than "neutral" exposure.
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There are a lot of variables in this script, that I still don't quite understand yet.  Will have to experiment more.
The Bv/Ev shift options can make the response to changing lighting look more natural.  This essentially means that the overall scene would get brighter when the clouds away. By default, the script tries to keep the same exposure no matter how the light changes, which means the sun coming out gives you lighter highlight/darker shadows but the same overall exposure.

I would suggest something like 30% and the "base" set to "first" or somewhere from 9-11 for daylight.
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: 28 / February / 2016, 17:49:44 »
Thanks for the response reyalp.


Here is another test I did this afternoon.





 This time I turned on the DR function in the Canon firmware,  and also had the EV +⅓ again canon firmware (don't know if this will affect the script though),  it looks brighter and maybe a bit more washed out than the previous test. The DR function might not be a good idea. It is a hazy day day today, so that might be affecting the look. 


The look I am looking for would be a bit less exposure in the sky/clouds, and the deep shadows not so blocked up and let the overall exposure go up or down a bit with the changing light.  I know I can adjust these in Lightroom, but would like to get a close as possible if I can before having to depend on post production.  Right now I am just shooting these in Jpeg's so they will only take so much curve adjustment before falling apart.


The EV shift you mention is this in the script or the canon firmware?


I just started another test that will cover sunset (same boring view, not looking at the sun) before I read your response and in it I changed the  Bv Ev shift base Bv to 9 instead of previous  (read in one of the forums that 10 would be noonish) but the area is still 90%.  Will try making the area smaller in future test. I will post it once I complete it.  I also made the maximum ISO 1600 in the script.


Otherwise I am really impressed with this script for doing smooth time lapse, none of the flickering or jumping I saw when trying some of the other scripts.


If I were to try and cover a sunrise were I could potentially have the sun go through the frame what settings would you recommend?


Thanks,


Mark







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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: 28 / February / 2016, 18:31:30 »
Quote from: MarkB on 28 / February / 2016, 17:49:44
This time I turned on the DR function in the Canon firmware,  and also had the EV +⅓ again canon firmware (don't know if this will affect the script though), 
Canon Ev shift shouldn't affect the script once it reaches steady state, unless you set "Use initial Ev as target"

I'm not sure what the Canon DR stuff will do.
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The look I am looking for would be a bit less exposure in the sky/clouds, and the deep shadows not so blocked up and let the overall exposure go up or down a bit with the changing light.
In the log from your previous run, the script was hitting the under exposure limiting. You can see this in the "under weight" column. If you want to allow it to get darker, you can use a larger value in "Underexp -Ev". This controls how many stops below neutral a pixel must be to be considered under exposure.

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The EV shift you mention is this in the script or the canon firmware?
The script "Ev Shift" setting.
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I just started another test that will cover sunset (same boring view, not looking at the sun) before I read your response and in it I changed the  Bv Ev shift base Bv to 9 instead of previous  (read in one of the forums that 10 would be noonish) but the area is still 90%.
Just to clarify, the % I was referring to is the "Bv Ev shift %". This controls much a change in real scene brightness affects the script exposure. So 33% means that if the scene gets darker by one stop, the brightness of the images is reduced by 1/3 stop. This is not related to the area of the meter. If it is zero, then the "Bv Ev shift base Bv" has no effect.

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If I were to try and cover a sunrise were I could potentially have the sun go through the frame what settings would you recommend?
You have to decide how you want the sun in the frame to be handled: Do you want to ignore it, leaving the rest of the scene reasonably well exposed, or do you want the camera limit overexposure as much as possible?

If you want the former, then the over exposure fraction should be significantly larger than the fractions of pixels covered by the sun at your chosen zoom level. If you limit overexposure, then the over exposure fraction should be small, and the under exposure limits should be very low (large values) or turned off.

To avoid obvious changes in exposure when the sun enters/leaves the meter area, I'd suggest either making the meter large (e.g. 90%), or making sure the area it covers isn't where the sun is going to be.

I'd also suggest using Bv/Ev shift (again 30%-ish), with the base set to a daylight value (again something like 9-11) This will make the scene start out dark and brighten as the sun rises.

You should also set the "Underexp -Ev", "Meter low thresh -EV" and "Meter low limit -Ev" to large values, to allow the scene to start out dark.

Here's an example of the "ignore the sun" approach to a sunrise

This is from a much older version of so I can't really give the specific settings
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