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Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations

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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: 28 / February / 2016, 19:37:10 »
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Here's a quick plot from the first log you posted.

over_frac and under_frac on the right scale, others are on the left. The increments on the left are 96 because that's a "stop" in the camera exposure system.

Some observations:
Both over and under exposure protection were active for essentially the whole run. Visible in both the _frac and _weight values. The "frac" values are the percentage of pixels that are outside the limits. The "weight" values reflect how much influence they have on the final exposure.

Of the two, under exposure had more influence on the final exposure. This can be seen in the "meter" value, which is always above 0, and the fact that under_weight is higher than over_overweight.

As mentioned  in the previous post, you could use a larger value for "Underexp -Ev" to make under exposure protection start later.
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: 29 / February / 2016, 00:40:17 »
First off, thanks so much for all the feedback, I would be poking around blindly with this script if it wasn't for the help.


I do prefer the "ignore the sun"  approach to a sunrise time lapse and will play around with the setting you advised.


I did another test as the sun set.  Again this one was done with mostly default settings.




I like the way it looks until it gets to a night sky and then the images start to over expose and the whole image is brighter.  Would the settings for "ignore the sun" for a sunrise work for a sunset so the image goes darker at night? Or do I have to play around with the over exposure settings when going from light to dark?   For this test I set maximum ISO to 1600, which in retrospect looks too high and I should have left it at 800.  Also minimum Tv was 1 sec,  would setting it to ½ sec have help achieve underexposure at night?  Even at 1600 ISO  1 sec the sequence was able to hold at a 3 second interval, so processing of each image didn't take longer than the interval which surprised me, since I was seeing "BUSY" on the screen after each exposure once it got dark.  Wonder if it would have been the same if the interval was shorter?


Thanks,


Mark





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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: 29 / February / 2016, 02:15:42 »
Quote from: MarkB on 29 / February / 2016, 00:40:17
I like the way it looks until it gets to a night sky and then the images start to over expose and the whole image is brighter.  Would the settings for "ignore the sun" for a sunrise work for a sunset so the image goes darker at night? Or do I have to play around with the over exposure settings when going from light to dark?
If I've understood this, the Bv/Ev shift settings I described are what you want for this. For as sunset, you can set the "base" value to "first", so the first shot will be normal exposure and it will get darker from there.

The jump around 52 sec in your video is strange. This looks like something weird happened in the ISO override behavior, making the effective ISO jump very suddenly. I'd be interested to know if you can see what image number this happened on. From the log, I'm guessing it was around 2205, where the ISO went over 1000.  The brightness measured in the raw data drops by almost exactly 1 stop at this point. This may be similar to an issue we've seen on g1x.

This is also around where the "busy" must have started, because because the "sleep" time drops by 0.6 seconds.

If you want to investigate the ISO response further, I wrote a test script for that: https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12165.msg123561#msg123561

But for now, I'd suggest keeping the rawopint ISO limit below 1000 on this camera.


Quote
   For this test I set maximum ISO to 1600, which in retrospect looks too high and I should have left it at 800.  Also minimum Tv was 1 sec,  would setting it to ½ sec have help achieve underexposure at night?
You can make it get dark if you set the exposure limits high enough, but it will happen very suddenly, because the script tries to keep the scene at "correct" exposure right up until it hits the limits. Bv/Ev shift gives you are more natural progression.

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  Even at 1600 ISO  1 sec the sequence was able to hold at a 3 second interval, so processing of each image didn't take longer than the interval which surprised me, since I was seeing "BUSY" on the screen after each exposure once it got dark.  Wonder if it would have been the same if the interval was shorter?
You can use the "sleep" column in the log to check how short an interval you could get away with. In your last log, it ends up at about 1 second, so with the settings you used, a 2 second interval would probably have worked. If you kept the ISO below the point where it triggers the busy, you could use around 1.5 second. You could also use the available time for longer exposures (e.g. 2 - 2.5 second), but somewhere over 1 second Canon dark frame will kick in, which effectively doubles your exposure time. You can force this off in CHDK options.

The BUSY screen is shown both for high ISO noise reduction and Canon dark frame.
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Offline c_joerg

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #13 on: 29 / February / 2016, 03:10:28 »
Quote

The jump around 52 sec in your video is strange. This looks like something weird happened in the ISO override behavior, making the effective ISO jump very suddenly. I'd be interested to know if you can see what image number this happened on. From the log, I'm guessing it was around 2205, where the ISO went over 1000. The brightness measured in the raw data drops by almost exactly 1 stop at this point. This may be similar to an issue we've seen on g1x.


 
 
Yes, I looks similar to the crazy thinks of my G1x...


@reyalp:
But why I have never seen it on my S110? Did I never come to the limits after so much runs?
Could it be that this behavior is firmware dependent? Because I have 103a and Mark has 102b. That could be also the reason, why lapser has different results on his G1x.
An option on isoinc with fixed Tv would be helpful for investigation…


@Mark:
Any reason why you are not using the latest firmware on your S110?
There is an official Canon firmware version (103a) available.
« Last Edit: 29 / February / 2016, 03:16:27 by c_joerg »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #14 on: 29 / February / 2016, 12:48:03 »
Quote from: c_joerg on 29 / February / 2016, 03:10:28
Could it be that this behavior is firmware dependent? Because I have 103a and Mark has 102b. That could be also the reason, why lapser has different results on his G1x.
IMO it's very unlikely, firmware updates are usually for bug fixes, and I would be very surprised if this required a fundamental change in how ISO works. Some interaction with other settings is a lot more likely, IMO. G1x is a bit of a different case because lapsers code was quite different.
Quote
An option on isoinc with fixed Tv would be helpful for investigation…
You mean to set the initial Tv? You should be able to use M mode. (edit: bad reyalp, going from memory. This is incorrect, see the isoinc thread https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12165.60) It should always stay the same between shots, unless you selected "Keep exposure constant"
« Last Edit: 29 / February / 2016, 16:38:06 by reyalp »
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: 29 / February / 2016, 19:30:27 »
Quote from: reyalp on 29 / February / 2016, 02:15:42
The jump around 52 sec in your video is strange. This looks like something weird happened in the ISO override behavior, making the effective ISO jump very suddenly. I'd be interested to know if you can see what image number this happened on. From the log, I'm guessing it was around 2205, where the ISO went over 1000.  The brightness measured in the raw data drops by almost exactly 1 stop at this point. This may be similar to an issue we've seen on g1x.
Yes  IMG_2205 was ISO1000,    IMG 2206 jumps to ISO1250,  IMG_2208 drops to ISO1000, then IMG_2218 back to ISO1250 and stays there until IMG_2244 where if jumps to 1600 where is stays until the end of the sequence.  I think for future use I will set max ISO to 800 and see how that behaves.
Quote from: reyalp on 29 / February / 2016, 02:15:42
If you want to investigate the ISO response further, I wrote a test script for that: https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12165.msg123561#msg123561 But for now, I'd suggest keeping the rawopint ISO limit below 1000 on this camera.
I am happy to run the test, are there any specifications or parameters you need?  Or is just pointing the camera outside fine?


Quote from: c_joerg on 29 / February / 2016, 03:10:28

@Mark:
Any reason why you are not using the latest firmware on your S110?
There is an official Canon firmware version (103a) available.


I was not aware the 103a firmware update was available for download.  I could not find it on the Canon Canada, Canon USA  or Canon Europe websites.  Do you know where to download it?


Thanks,


Mark
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: 29 / February / 2016, 19:53:21 »
Quote from: MarkB on 29 / February / 2016, 19:30:27
I was not aware the 103a firmware update was available for download.  I could not find it on the Canon Canada, Canon USA  or Canon Europe websites.  Do you know where to download it?
link > Official Canon Firmware Updates : Powershot S Series ?
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: 29 / February / 2016, 20:45:21 »
Thanks @waterwingz, but unfortunately I am a Mac user and that app won't run on my OS which  also might explain why I don't see the 103a firmware upgrade when I go to the official Canon websites.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: 29 / February / 2016, 22:02:43 »
Quote from: MarkB on 29 / February / 2016, 19:30:27
Yes  IMG_2205 was ISO1000,    IMG 2206 jumps to ISO1250,  IMG_2208 drops to ISO1000, then IMG_2218 back to ISO1250 and stays there until IMG_2244 where if jumps to 1600 where is stays until the end of the sequence.

Thanks, that makes sense with what I see in the log. The exif probably only shows rounded values. Some of changes are the script responding to the unexpected change in raw value.

Quote
I am happy to run the test, are there any specifications or parameters you need?  Or is just pointing the camera outside fine?

I replied to this one in the isoinc thread:  https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=12165.msg126898#msg126898
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: 03 / March / 2016, 00:39:21 »
Shot another video this evening with rawolint.lua  Pretty happy with this one.






Shot it a 5 second intervals.  I think this might be a bit too slow with traffic.
Setting I changed  in rawopint.lua include:
EV shift ¼
Bv EV shift 30%
Bv Ev shift base Bv First
Max Tv Sec/1000  500 set it to ½ since 1 sec gave too much motion blur once it got dark, still too slow, might try ¼ next time
Max ISO 800  I didn't seem to get any weird exposure jumps
Meter low thresh -Ev  3 ½
Meter low limit -EV 4 ¼     
Underexp -Ev 5 ½ 
--Wondering if I was a little too aggressive with these setting since as it was  getting dark the images were a little under exposed, but                --the images at night were fine                 
Image size M1
Use Raw No


Before rendering the video, I did do some post to the jpg's in Lightroom and played with the WB.  In camera I set WB to Cloudy but find as the day goes to night I get really intense blues, see previous test.  Just curious if anyone shoots a time-lapse in AWB?  I am shooting in jpg only to save processing time in camera during the sequence and wondering if I shot in RAW (CR2 in Canon firmware) would it affect the quickest I could set the interval at?


Again any  and all feedback is greatly appreciated.





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