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Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations

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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #100 on: 28 / August / 2017, 20:57:41 »
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c_joerg  Thanks for sharing iris and flicker information, very interesting.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #101 on: 28 / August / 2017, 23:01:05 »
Quote from: MarkB on 28 / August / 2017, 20:55:17
I read the bit about fine tuning to individual ND filters for individual cameras. To be honest I did not understand the solution to determining the correct number for each camera
Yes, it's unfortunate this isn't easier.

For S110,
* go to Miscellaneous Stuff -> Debug Parameters
* Set debug data display to Props
* Set PropCase/ParamsData page to 8
* Leave the CHDK menu and switch to rec
* Enable the ND filter in the Canon UI
* Half press the shutter and release after the camera focuses
* Enter ALT mode. The ND value should appear on the lines starting with 80 and 87. If it is, it will probably be something in the range 250-300. It might also appear in another line.
* You can verify by leaving alt mode, switching off the ND filter, half pressing, and checking the values again. They should go to 0.

Please post the values you see.

edit: for anyone else reading, S110 is a propset 5 camera. The property case numbers will be different on cameras that use other propsets, although probably nearby.

FWIW, with the hysteresis option (which is on by default), the ND should not change often in a sunrise or sunset, probably only once most in most cases. So it might not be too big a deal even if you don't get the right value.
« Last Edit: 29 / August / 2017, 02:20:20 by reyalp »
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #102 on: 29 / August / 2017, 01:18:28 »
Quote from: reyalp on 28 / August / 2017, 23:01:05

For S110,
* go to Miscellaneous Stuff -> Debug Parameters
* Set debug data display to Props
* Set PropCase/ParamsData page to 8
* Leave the CHDK menu and switch to rec
* Enable the ND filter in the Canon UI
* Half press the shutter and release after the camera focuses
* Enter ALT mode. The ND value should appear on the lines starting with 80 and 87. If it is, it will probably be something in the range 250-300. It might also appear in another line.
* You can verify by leaving alt mode, switching off the ND filter, half pressing, and checking the values again. They should go to 0.

Please post the values you see.


FWIW, with the hysteresis option (which is on by default), the ND should not change often in a sunrise or sunset, probably only once most in most cases. So it might not be too big a deal even if you don't get the right value.


With the ND filter in, after the half press and camera focuses the values that showed up on screen were

80: 292
81: 0
82: 0
83: 0
84: 0
85: 247
86: 247
87: 292
88: 292
89: 0

When I took the  ND filter out,everything went to 0  but line 85 and 86

So am I correct in assuming the ND value APEX*96 can be set to 292 on my S110

Thanks,

Mark





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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #103 on: 29 / August / 2017, 02:18:22 »
Quote from: MarkB on 29 / August / 2017, 01:18:28
So am I correct in assuming the ND value APEX*96 can be set to 292 on my S110
Yes, that should be it.

Thanks for testing and reporting.
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Offline c_joerg

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #104 on: 29 / August / 2017, 02:29:17 »
Quote from: MarkB on 28 / August / 2017, 19:00:39
When you are shooting at night how does the noise.image come out?

The S110 is not very good at night so I never went longer than 2.5s. You could do dark frames on the end of a time-lapse and do dark frame processing in post processing (I never did this before). If you reduce the images size to 1920*1080 this will already reduce the noise. I mostly reduce noise by setting higher noise reduction values in the RAW converter.

If I remember correctly, lapser also switched dark frame subtraction off when he made ‘Milky Way’ time-lapse with 30s on the G1x.

Quote from: reyalp on 28 / August / 2017, 03:45:00
There's also some odd flashing around 1:50. I'm not sure which frames these correspond to in the log.
Quote from: MarkB on 28 / August / 2017, 20:55:17
1:50  would correspond with image 2638  or there abouts.

You use 25fps? 110s * 25fps = 2750 …
That’s odd. Nothing to see in log data…


Quote from: reyalp on 28 / August / 2017, 23:01:05
FWIW, with the hysteresis option (which is on by default), the ND should not change often in a sunrise or sunset, probably only once most in most cases.

That sounds like a good option  :). I’m looking forward to test it…

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #105 on: 29 / August / 2017, 03:18:08 »
Quote from: c_joerg on 29 / August / 2017, 02:29:17

The S110 is not very good at night so I never went longer than 2.5s. You could do dark frames on the end of a time-lapse and do dark frame processing in post processing (I never did this before). If you reduce the images size to 1920*1080 this will already reduce the noise. I mostly reduce noise by setting higher noise reduction values in the RAW converter.

If I remember correctly, lapser also switched dark frame subtraction off when he made ‘Milky Way’ time-lapse with 30s on the G1x.


Okay I will shut off the dark frame subtraction and see how it goes.
Quote

You use 25fps? 110s * 25fps = 2750 …
That’s odd. Nothing to see in log data…



No I am using 23.976 fps.


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Offline c_joerg

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #106 on: 29 / August / 2017, 13:43:06 »
Quote from: reyalp on 28 / August / 2017, 23:01:05
Please post the values you see.

Looks like, my S110 has different values…

80: 287
81: 0
82: 0
83: 0
84: 0
85: 52
86: 247
87: 287
88: 287
89: 0

Quote from: MarkB on 29 / August / 2017, 01:18:28
When I took the  ND filter out,everything went to 0  but line 85 and 86
Same on my S110.

Where does this value come from? Not from the firmware or?
Is this value coming from some calibration which Canon made for each camera?
Interesting to know what both of my G1x says….

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M100 100a, M3 101a, G9x II (1.00c), 2*G1x (101a,100e), S110 (103a), SX50 (100c), SX230 (101a), S45,
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #107 on: 29 / August / 2017, 13:52:14 »
Quote from: c_joerg on 29 / August / 2017, 13:43:06
80: 287

Where does this value come from? Not from the firmware or?
Is this value coming from some calibration which Canon made for each camera?
Interesting to know what both of my G1x says….
Ouch  :(

Maybe I've misunderstood the meaning of that value. Seems unlikely the ND would vary so much between cameras of the same model, or that Canon would make it a calibration dependent value.
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Offline MarkB

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #108 on: 29 / August / 2017, 23:10:34 »
Quote from: reyalp on 29 / August / 2017, 13:52:14


Ouch  :(

Maybe I've misunderstood the meaning of that value. Seems unlikely the ND would vary so much between cameras of the same model, or that Canon would make it a calibration dependent value.


I would venture to say that there is potential for a fair amount of variation in anything that is mass produced,  and is the firmware adjusting for these small discrepancies. DSLR's have micro focus adjustments so you can pair up you body with your lens so that infinity will resolve on your sensor.   Everything is manufactured to a certain tolerance range and one could be hitting closer to one end and one at the other.  I would venture to say two different camera models assembled on the same day with their ND filters coming from the same batch would be closer to each other than two cameras of the same model made months apart.  In real world situations how much of a stop difference is my value of 293  compares to c_joerg's value of 287.  Are we talking 1/10 of a stop difference or ⅓ of a stop difference?


You may need to calibrate every individual camera. 
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Canon S110 Time Lapse Advice/Recommendations
« Reply #109 on: 29 / August / 2017, 23:39:03 »
Quote from: MarkB on 29 / August / 2017, 23:10:34
In real world situations how much of a stop difference is my value of 293  compares to c_joerg's value of 287
It's APEX*96, so 6/96 = 1/16th of a stop

I would be surprised if there was that much variation in production of a given model, but who knows. Anyway, I've started a new thread for ND related stuff: https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=13228.0
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