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CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS

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Offline Robert1975

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #20 on: 17 / July / 2017, 14:44:06 »
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I also tried using 2 sec timer, but image is still out of focus.

Using different values between 1000 to 2 million I get almost identical look for an object at 2m. It's just blurry...

Also, I noticed that out of 8 shots, 4 of them didn't have DNG written although I didn't touch this option while I was testing SDO.

It seems that SDO doesn't work reliably, it still has no practical use.

Is there any setting that I'm not aware of which might improve this?
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Offline Robert1975

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #21 on: 17 / July / 2017, 18:50:32 »
I can definitely confirm, sometimes DNGs are not saved when using SDO, and all shots at all focal lengths end up out of focus regardless of subject distance...

I hope this is a simple fix, now that you figured out how to manipulate Subject Distance.
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Offline waterwingz

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CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #22 on: 17 / July / 2017, 20:51:17 »
Quote from: Robert1975 on 17 / July / 2017, 18:50:32
I can definitely confirm, sometimes DNGs are not saved when using SDO, and all shots at all focal lengths end up out of focus regardless of subject distance...
I have a hard time believing that it was SDO testing causing some DNG's not to be saved. DNG's not being saved is typically an issue with lack of RAM. If the camera's heap runs out of space, CHDK will not be able to allocate space for working with the DNG file and will simply not attempt to store one.

edit : issue is was not related to SDO testing but rather to the file counter bug common in more recent ports. Patch now posted to fix this.

The CHDK "show memory info" function shows 634840 bytes of free memory on my loaner ixus300.  IIRC, that's not very much. reyalp can probably comment on that and whether a different memory model might be appropriate for this camera.

Fortunately, I can also do some testing on my own here.  8)  I'll see what I can drag out.

As far as SDO goes, did you try my test script?  I did not study the resulting images closely at the pixel peeping level but the only reasons for there to be nothing in focus in your images that I can think of is that either the lens focus elements are still moving when the image was captured or the focus mechanism has been set outside of the valid range for the camera. See below.

Here's my 2 cents worth about the focus mechanism on inexpensive P&S cameras.  I've spent a lot of time on this and it's the best (and only) theory that I have.

  • Expensive DSLR lens have carefully designed mechanical mechanisms that let you focus accurately by rotating the lens sleeve to a physical position indicated by printing on the sleeve telling you where it has focused.
  • Expensive P&S cameras with MF capability have calibrated internal focus mechanisms that allow you to specify a focus distance through the UI.
  • Cheap P&S cameras (like the ixus300) have a simple internal lens mechanism that moves an optical element back & forth until the software detects the sharpest image transitions.  It's done in a feedback loop - the camera has no idea what distance it is focused at - it just knows that the image is as sharp as it can make it.
  • For such inexpensive cameras, CHDK's ability to set a focus distance is a totally uncalibrated "best guess" by the camera's firmware. You give it a number (nominally in millimeters) and it moves the internal lens mechanism to a position that - on average for all cameras - might be close to the right position for the focus point you requested.  Maybe.
  • For cheap P&S cameras, it is also possible that too low or too high a requested setpoint will move the lens mechanism to a position where nothing is in focus.  The actual usable range might be much smaller than we have expected. We have already noted that if you look at several cameras of the same model & firmware, you can get very different results when (link>) trying to focus at infinity for example.

Basically, MF in CHDK is a hack.  CHDK can cause the lens focus mechanism to move to a fixed position where something might be in focus.  There are several threads with great examples of people doing focus stacking in macro mode this way.  It does work but you cannot treat it as a device that measures distances accurately.

Also, the depth of field on these tiny lenses usually means that everything more than a meter away is in focus almost all of the time anyway.   YMMV.

tl;dr : Let us know your results using the script?  I'll look at the DNG issue.

Edit: you will notice a couple of second delay each time a DNG is saved.  Did you notice that delay missing on some of your shots? probably fixed
« Last Edit: 18 / July / 2017, 00:24:13 by waterwingz »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #23 on: 17 / July / 2017, 22:40:25 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 17 / July / 2017, 20:51:17
I have a hard time believing that it was SDO testing causing some DNG's not to be saved. DNG's not being saved is typically an issue with lack of RAM. If the camera's heap runs out of space, CHDK will not be able to allocate space for working with the DNG file and will simply not attempt to store one. 

The CHDK "show memory info" function shows 634840 bytes of free memory on my loaner ixus300.  IIRC, that's not very much. reyalp can probably comment on that and whether a different memory model might be appropriate for this camera.
~600k is fairly middle of the road for free memory, I wouldn't expect that to be responsible for the missing DNGs.

The most common cause of missing DNGs is file counter issues, where the camera actually saves a DNG every time, but sometimes overwrites a previous one. You can tell the difference between this and the file not being saved at all, because it will take the normal DNG saving time.

The hooktest script may show if there are file counter issues http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Testing#hooktest.lua

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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #24 on: 17 / July / 2017, 23:43:12 »
Quote from: reyalp on 17 / July / 2017, 22:40:25
The hooktest script may show if there are file counter issues http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Testing#hooktest.lua
Thanks for that - there certainly is an issue. 

Patch file posted to the usual place - new version hopefully in the autobuild by tomorrow.
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Offline Robert1975

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #25 on: 18 / July / 2017, 12:21:32 »
All the posts & topics are making me dizzy...Sorry...

Please, if you have an SD4000 with you, do some detailed testing - take a couple of weeks if you have to, even months!, it doesn't have to be finished tomorrow.

In the field, I'm still forced to use the old buggy release, I used it last week and everything came out as I expected. It's nice that the buttons are fixed and zebra, histogram, SDO all work but these things have no practical use for my way of shooting. I've never had DNG writing issues before, why is this an issue now? That's far more important than everything else. If I used the fixed build in the field, I would get back home with "missed shots" in the most literal sense of the word :haha. How can I be sure that the next fix would not uncover some other bugs? Are these old bugs, or new bugs?

Also, as I said on DPR, it would be interesting to look at "focus point override", to use all nine focus points (squares).

I just need my tool to be predictable, however, I do believe you have a chance to make it "perfect" since you have the camera. In the end, it could be the best CHDK version off all cameras.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #26 on: 18 / July / 2017, 18:23:27 »
Quote from: Robert1975 on 18 / July / 2017, 12:21:32
Please, if you have an SD4000 with you, do some detailed testing - take a couple of weeks if you have to, even months!, it doesn't have to be finished tomorrow.
All of us have many projects in our queue of things to work on.  If people using a camera want to test it, we will happily help fix any bugs discovered.  But if nobody wants to test and report, we won't be investing our limited time testing someone else's camera. Sorry.

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I've never had DNG writing issues before, why is this an issue now? 
I can't answer that question as I have no idea what you have or have not done or noticed or how you were exercising the camera diferently while playing with the SDO feature. 

I can only state absolutely that the DNG bug I fixed yesterday has been in the port from day one (including your favorite buggy version) and that AFAIK nothing I subsequently fixed would have made it worse. reyalp, srsa_4c, msl or philmoz will no doubt chime in here if they think of other possibilities.

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How can I be sure that the next fix would not uncover some other bugs?
You can't.  (but see my edit below)

CHDK is just a clever hack. You decide what you want to do with it. All we can do is fix bugs reported and provide technical support to the best of our abilities.  If you don't want to work with us testing our fixes (as you have indicated in the past) there is not much we can do to help you further.   You basically got lucky that I was able to find an ixus300 and a few hours so that I could fix the various bugs you have reported so far.

But if it was up to me,  I would not be using the buggy version you prefer as it has that DNG bug buried in it waiting to reappear.

Edit : I've just reread the various recent threads on this camera and cannot find any bug that has been reported and fixed that has surfaced any "new" bug.  They have all been there from the start of these threads.

« Last Edit: 18 / July / 2017, 19:41:29 by waterwingz »
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Offline Robert1975

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #27 on: 29 / August / 2017, 17:22:40 »
It looks pretty good now! Release tested
ixus300_sd4000-100d-1.4.1-4901-full

Check this as well:

1) CHDK Auto ISO + Flash On After firing the flash, camera shuts down without recording JPG nor DNG. I noticed that Canon Auto ISO goes only up to 250 with Flash on. Maybe this causes the crash.

2) RAW toggle On/Off It should be Display button in Alt? Nothing happens. I suppose now that buttons are fixed this could work. It's convenient sometimes, faster than menus.

3) GUI behavior It's much more stable now, but with low battery warning or if I do something really quickly it might get messed up. Like, file browser or menus invisible, etc. However, it's mostly stable.

Anyway, it's pretty good now. "Instills" confidence. A tool for the true artist not obsessed with technical bullshit.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #28 on: 29 / August / 2017, 20:32:31 »
Quote from: Robert1975 on 29 / August / 2017, 17:22:40
It looks pretty good now! Release tested ixus300_sd4000-100d-1.4.1-4901-full
You're welcome.

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1) CHDK Auto ISO + Flash On After firing the flash, camera shuts down without recording JPG nor DNG. I noticed that Canon Auto ISO goes only up to 250 with Flash on. Maybe this causes the crash.
Can you post a ROMLOG and a more complete description of how you configured CHDK Auto ISO?  I highly doubt it's anything to do with Canon's auto ISO function.

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2) RAW toggle On/Off It should be Display button in Alt? Nothing happens. I suppose now that buttons are fixed this could work. It's convenient sometimes, faster than menus.
The code that implements RAW toggle On/Off requires a "real" button to monitor in <ALT> mode.  I'm open to suggestions but the ixus300 has very few real buttons and they all have other uses in <ALT> mode.  The "feather" buttons (fake DISP) might be useful but there is currently no CHDK capability to monitor those.
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Offline hwntw

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Re: CHDK on SD4000/IXUS 300 HS
« Reply #29 on: 30 / August / 2017, 06:01:20 »
Quote1) CHDK Auto ISO + Flash On After firing the flash, camera shuts down without recording JPG nor DNG. I noticed that Canon Auto ISO goes only up to 250 with Flash on. Maybe this causes the crash./Quote

I am getting custom ISO set in CHDK at 400, higher than the Canon limit of 250. No problems taking JPG or DNG
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