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2 Bricked elph 160 cameras

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Offline rduz

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2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« on: 03 / March / 2018, 22:19:41 »
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Hi,

I'm attempting to use two elph 160 cameras for a book scanner.  All cameras were operational before I started.  So far, I've managed to brick two of the three cameras I have.  I used the sticks application to identify that all three cameras are 100a firmware and to download the stable release.  I used licks to prepare the sd cards.  Once I bricked one camera, I decided to purchase new sd cards on the off chance there was something wrong with one of them.  I purchased two new 8GB class 10 cards today.  I prepared them with licks, seemingly successfully.  One camera works when I hit the play button.  The first time I tried them, they would flash the LED above the '?' button, but the screen never would come on.  Since the cameras didn't come on, I've never taken a photo with them while booted up under chdk.  Eventually, I had to pull the batteries to try to reset them.  Now, neither camera will do anything, either with the power button or the play button.  I've tried pulling the batteries, I've tried with and without sd cards.  The cameras are dead.

Is there anything I can do on my end, or are these simply a lost cause now?

Thank you.

Regards,
Rich
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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #1 on: 03 / March / 2018, 23:33:19 »
Ouch. My impression is a lot of people have used this model without encountering anything like this, so it's quite puzzling. There were some reports of problems with this camera after a crash with the lens extended.
Quote from: rduz on 03 / March / 2018, 22:19:41
Once I bricked one camera, I decided to purchase new sd cards on the off chance there was something wrong with one of them.

Can you describe the specific sequence that lead the first camera being bricked? You prepared the card, booted the camera, and it was dead?
When it bricked, were you trying to use the bootable SD card method (card locked) or firmware update?

Quote
One camera works when I hit the play button.
Running CHDK with one of the prepared cards, or just with the canon firmware?

Quote
  The first time I tried them, they would flash the LED above the '?' button, but the screen never would come on.
Did it blink continuously until you pulled the battery, or just briefly black?

Quote
I've tried pulling the batteries, I've tried with and without sd cards.  The cameras are dead.
Just if case: If you have any USB stuff connected to the cameras, try with it disconnected.

Are you using batteries, or external power adapters?

If you have removed the battery and SD card, and then reinserted the battery, and the camera doesn't boot, that implies something is very wrong with the onboard firmware or the hardware. It is possible for CHDK to crash in a way that makes the camera look dead, but pulling the battery should fix this. If the camera was left in this state for a long time, the battery could be drained. If there's any doubt, try using the battery from the working camera.

I've attached test build for ixus160_elph160 that should blink the LED as early as possible in the boot process. It should blink continuously until you pull the battery. If you have a prepared card, you can just replace the diskboot.bin. If it blinks, then we know the camera is alive and additional debugging may be possible.

If not, you might have to resort to the UART to tell if it's alive.

Other questions:
Did you successfully use the cameras before installing CHDK?
Were they new or used?
Do you know if they were original sold for the US market, or somewhere else?

edit:
If you know the specific version you ended up installing, that would also be useful
« Last Edit: 03 / March / 2018, 23:46:42 by reyalp »
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #2 on: 03 / March / 2018, 23:46:19 »
Quote from: rduz on 03 / March / 2018, 22:19:41
I used the sticks application to identify that all three cameras are 100a firmware and to download the stable release.  I used licks to prepare the sd cards.
This is a little unusual.  Why did you not let STICK install the downloaded CHDK file onto your SD card?  Why take an extra step and use LICKS?
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #3 on: 03 / March / 2018, 23:54:22 »
Right, I didn't want to do that, but sticks get the device name wrong when late in the process when it's going to write to the sd card.  Essentially, it's trying to mount the wrong path, so I used licks to do the installation.

Preparing /dev/sd/dev/b 8GB - please wait ...
Making card bootable  as FAT32
Command 'umount /dev//dev/sd/dev/b1' = '!Error

umount: /dev//dev/sd/dev/b1: mountpoint not found'

Note the extra /dev in the path there.  I sent an email to Dave about it earlier this evening.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #4 on: 03 / March / 2018, 23:57:53 »
I won't be able to find it now, but I seem to recall somebody saying that when he left his "bricked" camera overnight with the battery pulled,  it started working the next morning.  I'm assuming some sort of time for internal capacitors to discharge?  Worth a shot.
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #5 on: 04 / March / 2018, 00:04:56 »
Quote from: reyalp on 03 / March / 2018, 23:33:19
Ouch. My impression is a lot of people have used this model without encountering anything like this, so it's quite puzzling. There were some reports of problems with this camera after a crash with the lens extended.
Quote from: rduz on 03 / March / 2018, 22:19:41
Once I bricked one camera, I decided to purchase new sd cards on the off chance there was something wrong with one of them.

Can you describe the specific sequence that lead the first camera being bricked? You prepared the card, booted the camera, and it was dead?
When it bricked, were you trying to use the bootable SD card method (card locked) or firmware update?

I prepared the card as a bootable sd, locked it, installed it into the camera and hit the play button - or perhaps I turned it on, it's been a few weeks since I bricked the first one.

Quote
One camera works when I hit the play button.
Running CHDK with one of the prepared cards, or just with the canon firmware?

One camera is operational as a camera with the Canon firmware.  It booted the chdk firmware twice.  Once normally and it came up.  I'm new to the firmware so I presume it booted chdk normally.  I attempted to boot it again and it did something a bit odd.  It extended the lens just a bit and then did nothing.  I didn't want to brick a 3rd camera, so for the moment, I pulled the memory card and haven't tried to boot it since.

The other two cameras seem very dead.

Quote
  The first time I tried them, they would flash the LED above the '?' button, but the screen never would come on.
Did it blink continuously until you pulled the battery, or just briefly black? 

It blinked continuously until I pulled the battery.

Quote
I've tried pulling the batteries, I've tried with and without sd cards.  The cameras are dead.
Just if case: If you have any USB stuff connected to the cameras, try with it disconnected.

Nothing USB connected at this point.

Are you using batteries, or external power adapters?

I have both and can use either.


If you have removed the battery and SD card, and then reinserted the battery, and the camera doesn't boot, that implies something is very wrong with the onboard firmware or the hardware. It is possible for CHDK to crash in a way that makes the camera look dead, but pulling the battery should fix this. If the camera was left in this state for a long time, the battery could be drained. If there's any doubt, try using the battery from the working camera.

I've tried AC adapters and batteris with no luck.


I've attached test build for ixus160_elph160 that should blink the LED as early as possible in the boot process. It should blink continuously until you pull the battery. If you have a prepared card, you can just replace the diskboot.bin. If it blinks, then we know the camera is alive and additional debugging may be possible.

If not, you might have to resort to the UART to tell if it's alive.

Other questions:
Did you successfully use the cameras before installing CHDK?

Yes.  Especially to find out the correct firmware version.

Were they new or used?

They were used - from ebay.  I didn't think too much of the first camera bricking since it was an ebay purchase.  The second one bricking like the first one bothers me though.

Do you know if they were original sold for the US market, or somewhere else?
No idea.  I purchased from US sellers but that's no guarantee of anything I'm sure.

edit:
If you know the specific version you ended up installing, that would also be useful

The folder is called "Stable CHDK/ixus160_elph160-100a"  and inside the readme file it says "Current stable, released Nov 29 2015 as 1.4.1

I'll try the test build and see if I can get it to do anything, and then I'll follow up on the UART method later.
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #6 on: 04 / March / 2018, 00:06:23 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 03 / March / 2018, 23:57:53
I won't be able to find it now, but I seem to recall somebody saying that when he left his "bricked" camera overnight with the battery pulled,  it started working the next morning.  I'm assuming some sort of time for internal capacitors to discharge?  Worth a shot.

I've got the batts pulled on the two non-functioning cameras.
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #7 on: 04 / March / 2018, 00:19:09 »
> I'll try the test build and see if I can get it to do anything, and then I'll follow up on the UART method later.

Uh, yeah, about that -- I read the UART page and I realize that I can't use the UART method.  I don't have an o-scope or werewithal to use it effectively.  I can make the cameras available to an intrepid sleuth if that would help the situation. 

Also, the test build did nothing.  The cameras still seem to be bricked.
« Last Edit: 04 / March / 2018, 00:24:27 by rduz »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #8 on: 04 / March / 2018, 00:29:04 »
Quote from: rduz on 04 / March / 2018, 00:04:56
I attempted to boot it again and it did something a bit odd.  It extended the lens just a bit and then did nothing.  I didn't want to brick a 3rd camera, so for the moment, I pulled the memory card and haven't tried to boot it since.
That is odd... normally, when CHDK boots on cameras like this, the lens doesn't even try to extend unless you hold the power button down.
Quote
It blinked continuously until I pulled the battery.
The most likely thing to make it blink continuously is CHDK's model/firmware version check. This checks that the camera model and firmware version are correct, and blinks continuously if they aren't. If you got the version with stick, it should be OK though, unless they were actually different firmware versions and the images got mixed up.

Do you still have the images you used to get the version?

Quote
They were used - from ebay.  I didn't think too much of the first camera bricking since it was an ebay purchase.  The second one bricking like the first one bothers me though.
Yeah, two in a row seems like a red flag. Were they all from the same seller?

Quote
I read the UART page and I realize that I can't use the UART method.  I don't have an o-scope or werewithal to use it effectively.  I can make the cameras available to an intrepid sleuth if that would help the situation.
Understandable. Lets see what the build I posted does first...
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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #9 on: 04 / March / 2018, 00:36:45 »
Quote from: rduz on 04 / March / 2018, 00:19:09
Also, the test build did nothing.  The cameras still seem to be bricked.
:(
I guess try the battery out overnight thing waterwingz mentioned.

If you can measure how much current they draw when you try to power them on, that might tell us something.
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