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2 Bricked elph 160 cameras

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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #30 on: 09 / March / 2018, 23:52:04 »
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Quote from: rduz on 09 / March / 2018, 16:44:26
What do you mean "sync'd them from a usb cable?"  Do you mean that you've loaded firmware onto the camera directly?
cdordoni is referring to using them in a multicam rig and triggering with the USB cable, after CHDK was successfully installed. This doesn't have anything to do with the install / boot method.

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Right, I'd like to know where I might have gone wrong then.  This is my first attempt at asking a digital camera to boot anything other than the manufacturers OS and I think I've followed the directions pretty closely.
Us too. This is pretty weird, because we don't know of any way you could mess up the install process to produce the symptoms described. In the ~8 years I've been involved with CHDK, nothing like this has been reported before. I'm not trying to shift the blame from CHDK or imply it didn't happen, it's just quite puzzling.

Random thought:
Were you using external power when cameras were bricked? A bad PSU could certainly brick a camera.

As I mentioned earlier, if you can measure the current draw when you try to boot one of the "bricked" cameras, that might tell us something.
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Offline Ant

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #31 on: 10 / March / 2018, 06:59:52 »
Quote from: reyalp on 09 / March / 2018, 23:52:04
Random thought:
Were you using external power when cameras were bricked? A bad PSU could certainly brick a camera.

Moreover, the camera can operate from bad AC power supply until you connect it to PC using USB cable.(due to a breakdown of insulation between the primary and secondary sides)

@ rduz
Did you try to do it with your third camera?
In case of software problem(if you really want to find the cause) you need to connect to UART:


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I don't have an o-scope or werewithal to use it effectively
You don't need an oscilloscope.
These links could help you:
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=13278.0
https://nada-labs.net/2014/finding-jtag-on-a-canon-elph100hs-ixus115/

« Last Edit: 10 / March / 2018, 07:38:03 by Ant »
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #32 on: 10 / March / 2018, 13:35:56 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 09 / March / 2018, 21:54:44
Quote from: rduz on 09 / March / 2018, 16:59:47
Quote from: 62ndidiot on 06 / March / 2018, 00:17:56
I'd say two from the same user implies that the user is doing something different from other users.
Not hardware but a bug in chdk ( install process ) or a misunderstanding of something by the user.
Right, I'd like to know where I might have gone wrong then.  This is my first attempt at asking a digital camera to boot anything other than the manufacturers OS and I think I've followed the directions pretty closely.  The only deviation so far is the fact that sticks has a now-acknowledged bug and won't write correctly to SD cards on Ubuntu 16.04, so I ended up using licks.  When I examine the SD card contents, from what I can tell, they do appear to be correct.  Maybe it's just bad luck.  I'm now forced to decide on trying to obtain yet another elph 160, or if I bite the bullet and buy a couple dlsr's.  The bookscanner software maker pi-scan recommends Nikon 1 J5 for the DSLR (as of this writing) interfaced via libgphoto rather than chdk.  Two new Nikon 1 J5's will cost me around $1000, which is a definite ouch.  Currently, I'm out $100 in used cameras.

Well, with $1000 at stake I have another suggestion.

The ixus160 / elph160 CHDK build includes a ps.fi2 file.  Which means that it supports Firmware Update Method booting. You can simply low level reformat an SD card in your working camera and then use your PC to unzip the CHDK installation zip file (expanding directories) to the root folder on the SD card.  No LICKS or STICK or any other special card formatting required.  Start the camera by pressing the Playback switch (not the On/Off button) and then navigate the left hand tab Canon menu down to the bottom and select the "Firmware Update" option.

I guess it's possible that you will also brick your 3rd camera that way but it seems unlikely.   

With my other option being $1000 in clunky DSLR's,  I'd go for it. YMMV.

I'm not really wanting to drop the big bucks, yet, so I took the plunge on Cam 3, hoping to not trash a 3rd camera.  I did my initial work on Ubuntu 16.04 for Cam1 & Cam2 (the bricks).  For Cam3, I gained access to a win10 laptop and used sticks.  After attempt 1, the camera didn't want to boot, just flash the green light, so I was pretty worried.  I pulled the battery and then tried again.  I did a full format on the sdcard from the win10 machine, and then installed again via sticks.  I now get the firmware splash screen, and spent a few minutes playing tetris.

Cam 3 is operational! 
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #33 on: 10 / March / 2018, 22:15:10 »
Quote from: Ant on 10 / March / 2018, 06:59:52
Quote from: reyalp on 09 / March / 2018, 23:52:04
Random thought:
Were you using external power when cameras were bricked? A bad PSU could certainly brick a camera.

Battery.

Moreover, the camera can operate from bad AC power supply until you connect it to PC using USB cable.(due to a breakdown of insulation between the primary and secondary sides)

@ rduz
Did you try to do it with your third camera?
In case of software problem(if you really want to find the cause) you need to connect to UART:


I did today and detailed it in another post.  In short, cam3 is operational!  I ebay'd a fourth camera today.

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I don't have an o-scope or werewithal to use it effectively
You don't need an oscilloscope.
These links could help you:
https://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=13278.0
https://nada-labs.net/2014/finding-jtag-on-a-canon-elph100hs-ixus115/

One link mentions using an o-scope to locate the tx and rx pads.  Even if they are pointed out to me or marked, and I can obtain the proper serial cable, and I can successfully connect to them, I am completely in the dark as to what I would actually do to repair the cameras.  Is there any documentation as to how to proceed?

Thanks for trying to help me.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #34 on: 10 / March / 2018, 22:32:06 »
Quote from: rduz on 10 / March / 2018, 22:15:10
Even if they are pointed out to me or marked, and I can obtain the proper serial cable, and I can successfully connect to them, I am completely in the dark as to what I would actually do to repair the cameras.
Just connecting to it would tell us whether the bootloader (aka ROMSTARTER) is running or not. If it is, it sould likely be possible to more diagnostics to figure out what the specific problem is (for example, finding if the main ROM is damaged, or getting additional error output), and possibly repair it by loading code from the bootloader.

If the bootloader isn't running, then there's likely either physical damage or the entire onboard flash has been damaged.
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #35 on: 11 / March / 2018, 18:14:44 »
Quote from: reyalp on 10 / March / 2018, 22:32:06
Quote from: rduz on 10 / March / 2018, 22:15:10
Even if they are pointed out to me or marked, and I can obtain the proper serial cable, and I can successfully connect to them, I am completely in the dark as to what I would actually do to repair the cameras.
Just connecting to it would tell us whether the bootloader (aka ROMSTARTER) is running or not. If it is, it sould likely be possible to more diagnostics to figure out what the specific problem is (for example, finding if the main ROM is damaged, or getting additional error output), and possibly repair it by loading code from the bootloader.

If the bootloader isn't running, then there's likely either physical damage or the entire onboard flash has been damaged.

Ok, so is the process for doing so documented somewhere?  I tried to follow the links given earlier and I was confused by some of the jargon.  Which pad is the tx and which is the rx?  I presume it's not 5v.  Is it 1.8v or 3.3v?  What's the most appropriate cable setup to buy that will get the job done as easily as practical?
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Offline reyalp

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #36 on: 12 / March / 2018, 13:29:11 »
Quote from: rduz on 11 / March / 2018, 18:14:44
Ok, so is the process for doing so documented somewhere?
Not more than the wiki page (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/UART) and links Ant gave.

It's up to you to decide if this is something you want to do, I only posted to say that it would potentially help us understand what happened.
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #37 on: 16 / March / 2018, 11:38:44 »
Quote from: reyalp on 12 / March / 2018, 13:29:11
Quote from: rduz on 11 / March / 2018, 18:14:44
Ok, so is the process for doing so documented somewhere?
Not more than the wiki page (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/UART) and links Ant gave.

It's up to you to decide if this is something you want to do, I only posted to say that it would potentially help us understand what happened.

Fair enough.  I'm considering proceeding but I believe I need rather more guidance here.  Without an o-scope to identify the correct pads, I'd need at least an image indicating tx and rx.  I think the image posted earlier in the thread encompasses 7 or 8 pads, but doesn't identify which is tx and which is rx.

I did re-read the UART page, and I missed the recommendation: "FTDI sells USB TTL Serial Cables like TTL-232R-3V3 which are perfect for the job." so I feel better about that part.
« Last Edit: 16 / March / 2018, 11:43:13 by rduz »
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Offline Ant

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #38 on: 17 / March / 2018, 02:08:46 »
Quote from: rduz on 16 / March / 2018, 11:38:44
I think the image posted earlier in the thread encompasses 7 or 8 pads, but doesn't identify which is tx and which is rx.
The image posted earlier in the thread contains 8+9=17(+2 mounting) pads for unsoldered connector (for canon developers). Look at WIKI. Usually there are larger round duplicate pads for RX and TX near this connector. Use multimeter to find them like I did it for EOS M3:


Just solder two wires(+ one for  GND) and measure voltages on it after pressing power button or closing battery cover. Or connect alternately one of them to RX input of your  "USB TTL Serial Cable". I don't know what are voltage levels on Digic4 cameras. On Digic6 cameras it's 1.8V...
« Last Edit: 17 / March / 2018, 02:18:32 by Ant »
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Offline rduz

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Re: 2 Bricked elph 160 cameras
« Reply #39 on: 17 / March / 2018, 16:23:01 »
Quote from: Ant on 17 / March / 2018, 02:08:46
Quote from: rduz on 16 / March / 2018, 11:38:44
I think the image posted earlier in the thread encompasses 7 or 8 pads, but doesn't identify which is tx and which is rx.
The image posted earlier in the thread contains 8+9=17(+2 mounting) pads for unsoldered connector (for canon developers). Look at WIKI.
Just solder two wires(+ one for  GND) and measure voltages on it after pressing power button or closing battery cover. Or connect alternately one of them to RX input of your  "USB TTL Serial Cable". I don't know what are voltage levels on Digic4 cameras. On Digic6 cameras it's 1.8V...

Thanks for the information!  It's very helpful.
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