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Helping Get CHDK More Popular

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Offline adcz

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #10 on: 31 / May / 2008, 12:57:23 »
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Quote from: BB on 31 / May / 2008, 12:50:23
I guess threads like these?

Money and CHDK
Asking Canon to release their source code
Help making CHDK and the forum better

But, I am not a moderator here--so take what I posted as just a helpful comment...

-Bill

ooh thanks :) Hmm...maybe somebody should work on like a little "Forum Tree". All topics categorized :) especially the "Hot" ones
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Offline acseven

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #11 on: 01 / June / 2008, 19:28:35 »
Quote from: adcz on 30 / May / 2008, 08:35:00
A lot of people on the forum believe in keeping the CHDK community as small as possible. While they might have some good points in doing so, I largely disagree with that philosophy.

Just to clarify, you stated you already know that subject had been discussed (e.g. BB pointed out the threads), hence my request. Nonetheless, this topic will keep on being debated despite the thread.

Cheers
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Offline adcz

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #12 on: 01 / June / 2008, 19:58:08 »
Can you merge them pls? It would clear up lots of confusion! Thanks!

Quote from: acseven on 01 / June / 2008, 19:28:35
Quote from: adcz on 30 / May / 2008, 08:35:00
A lot of people on the forum believe in keeping the CHDK community as small as possible. While they might have some good points in doing so, I largely disagree with that philosophy.

Just to clarify, you stated you already know that subject had been discussed (e.g. BB pointed out the threads), hence my request. Nonetheless, this topic will keep on being debated despite the thread.

Cheers
« Last Edit: 01 / June / 2008, 20:01:06 by adcz »
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Offline PhyrePhoX

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #13 on: 02 / June / 2008, 00:50:57 »
By the way,check out the poll in the 'chdk in the media' thread ;)
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Offline penguin47

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #14 on: 05 / June / 2008, 11:49:22 »
TO THE PHP GUY:

I actually have a website that I never use.  I dont know if it would help, but it is hosted by AFMU and it is PHP.  It is The Johnson Family Homepage - Home  I dont know if that name can be changed or anything.  I tried setting up a website and realized that I am to exhausted and busy to do it.  Until the name can be changed or the whole website moved somewhere else, I can set you up with ADMIN privledges and you can go to town on making a beautiful CHDK website.  I will do anything I can to help get CHDK on my A590. 

I dont know if any of that will help CHDK or anything, but if it will, let me know...
« Last Edit: 05 / June / 2008, 11:52:17 by penguin47 »
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Offline cybercom

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #15 on: 05 / June / 2008, 13:33:08 »
While there are many interesting ideas here, I think the real drawback will be when 60-year old granny (bless her heart) needs support because she somehow did something wrong.

Who will be there for her? There is no formal support staff. She will not be reading ewavr, Jucifer and DataGhost's posts (apologies to all the rest of you, but you get the idea) to figure out her problem.

What's the 800 number?

And the minute 300 people call Canon because they just bought a zZxXyY 16-GB, class 10 SDHDHC card that doesn't work in their brandy new A7590-2, 16-mp camera, even though they assiduously copied the version of CHDK they got with their SD1000... 

Well, I'm sure you can understand.

I'm all for organic growth and that seems to be happening here. New folks (mostly male it appears - why is that??) are joining in all the time and they are all self-motivated and willing to take and willing to give when & how they can. Opening CHDK to a large audience of "takers only" by selling them something will, IMHO, be detrimental to that organic growth.


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Offline adcz

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #16 on: 05 / June / 2008, 16:48:45 »
to penguin:
awww that is really nice of you :)
Well...assuming you have the "Plan A", there is only 1000 MB disk space...which is not too much (probably very little bandwidth too). And of course we will not be able to host everything on there. What we can use that space for is making a user friendly site just for the purpose of setting up CHDK on the camera, and solving basic, basic, problems. Maybe a link to Chat/Forum. But that's it. In order to do that, we would have to have access to the mysql servers/ftp end. So maybe later, if you want, PM me or acseven (or whatever admin/mod you trust) the details for the server, and we can use it for something. Again THANK YOU. It is a very generous donation.

to cybercom:
[quote
Who will be there for her? There is no formal support staff. She will not be reading ewavr, Jucifer and DataGhost's posts (apologies to all the rest of you, but you get the idea) to figure out her problem.
[/quote]
As I suggested in another thread, we can have a chat room, where people like me answer people's stupid questions :) I personally don't mind :)

Quote
And the minute 300 people call Canon because they just bought a zZxXyY 16-GB, class 10 SDHDHC card that doesn't work in their brandy new A7590-2, 16-mp camera, even though they assiduously copied the version of CHDK they got with their SD1000...
Hahaha :) that was funny :). And don't they only go up to Class 6 :D

Quote
Well, I'm sure you can understand.
Heh yeah. But it's Canon's problem then :P

Quote
I'm all for organic growth and that seems to be happening here. New folks (mostly male it appears - why is that??) are joining in all the time and they are all self-motivated and willing to take and willing to give when & how they can.
how do you know, mostly male...you never know until you ask (I'm male btw).

Quote
Opening CHDK to a large audience of "takers only" by selling them something will, IMHO, be detrimental to that organic growth.
Eh. I dunno. How bout Firefox. Everybody uses it. It's open source. Yet it's growing like crazy.
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STOP!! Before thou smiteth me, please PM me the reason! . Criticism = bad, constructive criticism = good.

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Offline fe50

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #17 on: 05 / June / 2008, 17:26:06 »
Quote
...we can have a chat room, where people like me answer people's stupid questions :) I personally don't mind :)
...And the minute 300 people call Canon because they just bought a zZxXyY 16-GB, class 10 SDHDHC card that doesn't work in their brandy new A7590-2, 16-mp camera, even though they assiduously copied the version of CHDK they got with their SD1000...
...Hahaha :) that was funny :). ...

So have much fun with that 24/7 !
(OK - would be no problem for you - you also can do that in ~ 10 foreign languages...)

Quote
...Heh yeah. But it's Canon's problem then :P

It'll become yours AND ours faster you can say "shxx happens !"

...Canon's legal department, Canon's barristers, Canon's modifications for the upcoming camera generation (btw. - seems we have this reaction already on the new encrypted Canon firmwares)...

Let sleepin' dogs lie, they'll bite you !

Prosit  :-X
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Offline wontolla

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #18 on: 05 / June / 2008, 17:42:34 »
Call me hippie, but organic growth communities only work when they are small.
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Offline DataGhost

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Re: Helping Get CHDK More Popular
« Reply #19 on: 05 / June / 2008, 18:01:43 »
Quote from: adcz on 05 / June / 2008, 16:48:45
Eh. I dunno. How bout Firefox. Everybody uses it. It's open source. Yet it's growing like crazy.
No. Not everybody uses it. A lot of people still use IE, since it ships with Windows and recently got functionality that rivals Firefox for the simple user. I use Opera and I'm certainly not the only one. Then there's still Safari, Konqueror, etc. You probably didn't hear of a lot of software but that doesn't mean 'everyone' uses what you use.

Anyway, why do you keep insisting on separate hosting? It works fine the way it is now and frankly, to get CHDK I don't need to wait anywhere. I can either just checkout the source or download a binary from GrAnd. I do agree that the zshare 1-minute wait is annoying, but it's only that. It's not like you need to use it several times a day.. and it's just one minute. If we really need a place to host stuff, there's GrAnd's hosting, I have 4GB at my university, acseven might be able to help... enough possibilities here. Again, putting it all in one package can only cause trouble, especially if you don't want to spend any money on it. This project may be free but webhosters want to earn money regardless of what you're hosting. (Also, it might be useful to notice that all "Unlimited bandwidth/storage" packages are cheap, whereas business/enterprise hosting with SLAs etc is expensive. There are no expensive "unlimited" packages, because nobody wants to guarantee unlimited use. Really, don't try to move big projects to ultra-cheap hosting.)

As for 'n00bs'... why do they *need* CHDK? I don't think anyone would install CHDK 'for the fun of it', to do nothing useful with it. My opinion: if someone feels that he/she 'needs' it, he/she will have to put some effort into it. Why else would you consider yourself a power-user?
Properly reading the FAQ/manual is the key to actually understanding what CHDK does and why it does things... and it limits the chances of user error. People already spent a lot of time in writing documentation. Sure, it can be shortened in some cases, but this should definitely not be done to generalize 'for all models'. As you've proven in your small tutorial/video, you easily miss things, especially if you don't look at it from the developer's point of view.
I personally think the documentation is quite understandable and should allow anyone to install CHDK on his own in under an hour. People tend to rush into things, half an hour isn't 'too long'. Everyone should take the time to read what they're actually doing, because some actions can destroy data if you're not careful enough.

Helping people in chat or whatever: if you've done that for a while or lurked in a helpdesk-type channel, you'll notice that most of the questions are actually already answered in the FAQ. You'd have to repeat the FAQ because someone is apparently too lazy to read it. That doesn't work for me. It makes people lazy and it encourages rushing through the installation process. Not only with CHDK, but they'll expect the same level of support and step-by-step live-chat help from other projects as well. The instructions are simple enough and if you can't understand them, you should probably not be using CHDK, you're bound to run into other problems. Famous quote: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

What may be done, though, is *restructuring* the FAQ, instructions and maybe the wiki... and a cleanup. A lot of pages are semi-outdated and information is scattered around a bit. It'd probably be a big help for 'newbies' if they didn't have to put much effort into searching (although that might also be a bad thing). Another result of the somewhat scattered state of the wiki is that people (like you) start creating new guides which are.... heh... essentially in the FAQ already.

Last but not least, when making big changes to the wiki (i.e. a front-page link to a tutorial or whatever), get it reviewed by someone before actually linking to it, potentially causing some people to do bad things. It's very easy to miss errors/omissions in things you made yourself and peer-review is a very good tool to getting a correct article.
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