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Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3

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Offline PhyrePhoX

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #40 on: 11 / February / 2009, 11:53:41 »
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Quote from: Microfunguy on 11 / February / 2009, 09:51:52
Quote from: vit40 on 11 / February / 2009, 09:43:26
result from raw is better for me


Sure, but can you prove it  ?  :)

I accept the white-balance flexibility.

You have the RAW and the JPG, can you upload them somewhere so that we can play with the JPG ?
holy cow, microfunguy is going at the raw topic again... why do we have to prove something to you?
i will still do it, because you are my friend.

i quickly shot a testshot using my external flashgun, overexposing intentionally. in the field, you normally expose right directly in the camera, but sometimes you dont get it right, be it because the cam was in auto mode or whatever. especially in situations where there are huge contrasts, like in snow, direct sunlight or somewhere dark. now, i wont even mention the whitebalance issue and just cut to the point:
the raws do contain more information.
attached are two pictures, one is the jpg out of the camera, the other one is the dng out of the camera (converted to jpg of course). both files have been treated the same way in lightroom - Exposure: -4, Brightness: -27. I could have done more, i also could have shot a "relevant picture", however i just wanted to prove the point.
this is the corner of my room, where you can see plastering/stucco and a curtain. i fired the flash in this corner. in the jpg out of the camera, you can barely see any stucco, whereas in the dng you can. Here you can download the original jpg, the original dng and the "edited" versions of both in full resolution (the attached two pics here are scaled down). have fun with the original jpg, show me the stucco.


edit: added the unedited (only resized) original jpg to the attachments
edit: replaced unedited jpg with the real one
« Last Edit: 11 / February / 2009, 17:52:37 by PhyrePhoX »
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Offline fvdk

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #41 on: 11 / February / 2009, 16:48:59 »
Quote from: PhyrePhoX on 11 / February / 2009, 11:53:41

attached are two pictures, one is the jpg out of the camera, the other one is the dng out of the camera (converted to jpg of course). both files have been treated the same way in lightroom - Exposure: -4, Brightness: -27. I could have done more, i also could have shot a "relevant picture", however i just wanted to prove the point.
this is the corner of my room, where you can see plastering/stucco and a curtain. i fired the flash in this corner. in the jpg out of the camera, you can barely see any stucco, whereas in the dng you can. Here you can download the original jpg, the original dng and the "edited" versions of both in full resolution (the attached two pics here are scaled down). have fun with the original jpg, show me the stucco.


edit: added the unedited (only resized) original jpg to the attachments





Are you sure that these are not two different pictures, taken with different settings?

CRW_9735_afterLightroom.dng and IMG_9735_afterLightroom.jpg are obvious the same.

IMG_9736.JPG however which you claim to be the original jpg not only has a higher file number but it is also the same size (2816x2112) so not resized. However, the curtain is in another position which makes me believe that it is another picture.

Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of the advantages of RAW and I use it a lot on my 450D.

I also know that David has never used RAW and therefor wonders if it is worth the trouble to keep it in SDM.
When he told me that he thought of dropping RAW support in SDM, I told him that I thought that he should keep it in and he replied that he would be glad to do it if I could show him the advantages. So far, I have not had any time to experiment with it but nevertheless he kept it in in the latest release of SDM.

BTW, this is something that is bothering me for a longer time so I might as well say it now. It is obvious that you don't like David very much for reasons that I don't agree with but it is of course your right to have your own opinion. However, don't you think it is time to let go and focus on your own build?

SDM is clearly not your cup of tea so don't bother about it.
Maybe David is not providing diffs as you would like to see them but as far as I know, he is only obliged to provide the source of his build and he is doing that. You may not like it but that's the way it is.
I am also sure that despite the above, parts of his programming contributed to the CHDK build and as such, the whole community is benefiting. nitpicking on him is not helping anyone.

Just my 2 cents.

Frans
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bugmenot

Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #42 on: 11 / February / 2009, 17:34:00 »
I spent hours testing the CHDK raw vs jpg.

 I took photos at iso 800 with my canon a710 and spent hours fiddling with noise reduction. I can honestly say that i didn't see any advantage when applying noise reduction over the RAW(DNG) compared to the JPG. The DNG file looked so much uglier than the jpg, color, contrast, everything...

So noise advantage of the raw didn't convinced me

it's a pain in the [admin: avoid swearing please] to bring it to the jpg level.

Quote from: Microfunguy on 11 / February / 2009, 09:51:52
Quote from: vit40 on 11 / February / 2009, 09:43:26
result from raw is better for me


Sure, but can you prove it  ?  :)

I accept the white-balance flexibility.

You have the RAW and the JPG, can you upload them somewhere so that we can play with the JPG ?
« Last Edit: 11 / February / 2009, 17:35:35 by bugmenot »
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #43 on: 11 / February / 2009, 17:35:14 »
Quote from: PhyrePhoX on 11 / February / 2009, 11:53:41
show me the stucco.

I think a grossly overexposed image would be noticed immediately after capture, I would simply retake at a different setting.
For 'problem' subjects generally, I would use high-speed (JPG) exposure-bracketing for greater dynamic range.
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bugmenot

Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #44 on: 11 / February / 2009, 17:39:14 »
high speed on a compact? :) and what if you have moving subjects? bracketing is off then...

Quote from: Microfunguy on 11 / February / 2009, 17:35:14
Quote from: PhyrePhoX on 11 / February / 2009, 11:53:41
show me the stucco.

I think a grossly overexposed image would be noticed immediately after capture, I would simply retake at a different setting.
For 'problem' subjects generally, I would use high-speed (JPG) exposure-bracketing for greater dynamic range.

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Offline PhyrePhoX

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #45 on: 11 / February / 2009, 17:55:07 »
i mixed up some files in the "proof-zip", now every file in it is correct. the point is still valid, i did not make a mistake (besides the the mixing of the files in the zip)

the question here was NOT, if raw can be replaced by exposure bracketing or simply reshooting at a different setting. the question was (correct me if i'm wrong) if raw can be better than jpg. and this i proved.
you do not always have the time to reshoot or do exposure bracketing or whatever - i enable raw in most situations and via lightroom i have an app i can treat the dngs just like normal jpgs in (with all the added benefits). also, the crappy LCD on the powershots do not really show you blown highlights.
you can throw raw out of sdm, i don't care.

edit: btw dng saved my a$$ often times now, since i use flash a lot (in manual mode, thus the cam cannot meter stuff right) i often end up with "white, blown faces". i can recover these most of the times using lightroom.
« Last Edit: 11 / February / 2009, 17:59:28 by PhyrePhoX »
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #46 on: 11 / February / 2009, 17:59:12 »
Quote from: bugmenot on 11 / February / 2009, 17:39:14
high speed on a compact? :)

What I really mean, is that for the type of subject suitable for HDR, bracketing-mode will take JPG images far faster than RAW images.


David
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Offline zosX

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #47 on: 11 / February / 2009, 22:47:58 »
Detail. Its all about detail. If you can't see compression artifacts in your jpegs then maybe you don't have a fine eye for that sort of thing. The RAWs always clearly present more detail and have not been massively post processed. Its the closest you can get to pure digital "film." It is, for the most part, the RAW output from the CCD. The noise reduction on night shots is pretty clear in the jpegs too. With RAW you have a fine control over such things. It seems to me that the whole point of CHDK is to take control from the camera and put it back into your hands. I always shoot full manual and I do like to do bracketed exposures (haven't set that up yet in CHDK).  I don't really know a whole lot other than the basics of composition, framing, focus, and how aperture and exposure length coalesce and really, isn't that all that matters? I'm always interested in better quality and more control. Maybe for you jpeg is "good enough," but when I saw the difference I was pretty immediately blown away. Oh yeah, why sacrifice 10-bits of colour vs jpegs 8? I guess everyone has made all these arguments to you before, but there they are. Finally if you were shooting HDR what would it matter how fast the shots were taken?

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bugmenot

Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #48 on: 22 / February / 2009, 17:25:34 »
more proof that using CHDK and shooting in RAW mode can save your day

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&thread=31079864
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Offline gam3ra

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Re: Problems with color when importing a .dng into photoshop cs3
« Reply #49 on: 23 / February / 2009, 13:49:32 »
About the colors - I have found out that in daylight RAW images are with very good color (I shoot is .CRW and then dng4ps2 BETA with color profile for A590IS). The problem is with darker pictures, shadows are becoming BLUE, but everything other good. With some playing with colors you can do undersaturation to shadows.

I'm very happy with RAW, the noise reduction by myself is MUCH better, here comparison

A590IS ISO1600 F2.6 1/50s - 100% crops

First is direct JPG, second is RAW and noise reduction is photoshop, I think it is much better  ;)

« Last Edit: 23 / February / 2009, 13:54:18 by gam3ra »
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