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Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?

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Offline mweerden

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #10 on: 10 / May / 2009, 05:52:03 »
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There still seems to be confusion about the different options. Perhaps this helps:

    <=4GB    >4GB
automatic boot1 bootable FAT16 partition with DISKBOOT.BIN1 small bootable FAT16 partition with DISKBOOT.BIN + 1 big FAT 32 partition
manual boot1 FAT16 partition with PS.FI21 FAT32 partition with PS.FI2

The FAQ/Mac link you referred to seems to be mainly concerned with getting the autoboot to work.

For the manual boot ("Firmware update") you need:

  • A working partition; you have this if the camera saves the picture you take on your card.
  • A PS.FI2 file in the root of the card

That should really be all. Reading the FAQ/Mac, the only thing I can come up with is that the name of PS.FI2 on the card is actually not really PS.FI2. Please make sure that this "quarantine" stuff discussed in the FAQ/Mac is not an issue here (i.e. check with 'ls -al' to make sure there isn't a '@').
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Offline CanonBlue

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #11 on: 10 / May / 2009, 06:06:13 »
Thanks for trying to help me figure this out, I really appreciate it.

I tried awhile ago to just make the whole 8 gig card formatted FAT32 and copy all of the files over, but it didn't work. Should it? If it ought to work I could try it again.

But there's that other part of the directions that involves copying the boot sector over and using a Hex editor, and my guess is that that's the part that's going wrong? Should I have to do that part at all if I don't care about autoboot?

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the name of PS.FI2 on the card is actually not really PS.FI2.
Wait, then what is the name?
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Offline mweerden

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #12 on: 10 / May / 2009, 06:24:41 »
Quote from: CanonBlue on 10 / May / 2009, 06:06:13
I tried awhile ago to just make the whole 8 gig card formatted FAT32 and copy all of the files over, but it didn't work. Should it? If it ought to work I could try it again.

It should, but, as I said, all you need to do is check that your camera can save pictures on the card. If that's the case, the partition should be ok for manual boot.

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But there's that other part of the directions that involves copying the boot sector over and using a Hex editor, and my guess is that that's the part that's going wrong? Should I have to do that part at all if I don't care about autoboot?

This is only for autoboot, so you can totally ignore this. (It shouldn't influence the outcome, though.)

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the name of PS.FI2 on the card is actually not really PS.FI2.
Wait, then what is the name?

Sorry to confuse you, but I meant that it might seem as if the file is called PS.FI2 when looking at it on your computer, but that CHDK sees another name (e.g. because of tricks the Mac does to mark the file as being quarantined). As the autoboot does work for you, perhaps you can have a look at the root directory with CHDK (with the file browser in misc. stuff) and see what kind of files are in there. (I just got DISKBOOT.BIN, PS.FI2, vers.req and readme.txt.)

B.t.w.: I just noticed this post in the thread for my camera's port: http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,3309.msg33337.html#msg33337 Sounds like the same problem and that your Mac is to blame. I think it would be very helpful if we can figure out the problem and put it very clearly in the FAQ.
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Offline CanonBlue

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #13 on: 10 / May / 2009, 06:51:28 »
I tried again just now making sure it was one FAT32 partition and copying everything over, and it didn't work. There is still no Firm Update anywhere in the menus.

So it sounds like it is some problem with the mac, I guess. I wonder if there is anyone who has gotten the firmware update method to work using a mac. I haven't actually tried any of the stuff suggested in the "still having problems?" section of the Mac FAQ, because after reading it I thought it only applied to cases where the CHDK didn't install at all, and mine did. I didn't really understand what it was talking about, but maybe I'll take another look.

I might try it on a PC at some point, but I don't have easy access to one right now. I could try it on a school computer, but I'm not sure if I can install programs on the school computers (don't I need some program called card tricks? Or if its just copying the files onto the card I can probably do that at school.) and also I'm just not very experienced doing anything on a PC beyond checking my email and opening PDFs, which is all I usually use the school computers for. We always had macs when I was growing up.

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perhaps you can have a look at the root directory with CHDK (with the file browser in misc. stuff) and see what kind of files are in there. (I just got DISKBOOT.BIN, PS.FI2, vers.req and readme.txt.)


On the working 4 gig card in the root directory I have Folders: CHDK, DCIM, and SNDR. The last two are the folders the camera makes when its saving photos and sound recordings. Then I have files: DISKBOOT.BIN, PS.FI2, vers.req, and ownerinfo.txt (which just has my name and email address in case it gets lost).
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #14 on: 10 / May / 2009, 15:15:40 »
Quote from: CanonBlue on 10 / May / 2009, 03:33:46
I understand how creating partitions works and stuff, and its easy in disk utility to make sure you are only modifying the SD card and not any other drive. But I don't know much about the Terminal code. The code given worked just fine, and I think its unrealistic to expect anyone who wants to try the CHDK to know how to program in linux or unix or whatever that is.
Whether you think it should be easier or not is irrelevant.

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I did read the known issues on that FAQ but I don't think any of them apply to me. Since the installation worked on my 4 gig card, I don't think there are any problems with unarchiving or permissions.
Did you actually check with ls -la@ ? It would be unsurprising if mac did slightly different things between FAT32 and FAT12 or different partition types.

The firmware update method is known to work. All you have to do is have a copy of the correct FI2 file in the root directory of the first partition on the card, without any special attributes or anything.

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Offline CanonBlue

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #15 on: 10 / May / 2009, 15:45:42 »
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Did you actually check with ls -la@ ? It would be unsurprising if mac did slightly different things between FAT32 and FAT12 or different partition types.

I'm not sure who/what that is, so no (I did email the person who wrote the Applescript for doing this installation, and they were interested to hear that it didn't work on my computer, but I didn't really get any new info). It may well be doing different things between different file systems, but I don't know how to fix it. And I suspect that the problem here is actually the same problem with both FAT16 and FAT32, since the Firm Update menu does not appear in either case.

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The firmware update method is known to work. All you have to do is have a copy of the correct FI2 file in the root directory of the first partition on the card, without any special attributes or anything.

That's what I've done and it doesn't work. Are you sure its "known to work" on a mac? I think its known to work with Windows, but I haven't heard any first hand accounts of it working on a mac, and I've now seen at least one other post saying it didn't work on a mac (if I found someone who got it working that would be great). And it didn't work for me on any size card, so I suspect the problem with this particular bit is something to do with the FI2 file itself, not with the partition size/format, but I could be wrong.

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Whether you think it should be easier or not is irrelevant.

Ok, but if your advice is for people to learn an entire programming language before copying and pasting one line of code for a one time installation, don't be surprised if people don't follow it. I think that's the point of having directions that tell you exactly what to do, rather than just saying "use linux to make this bootable." Of course everyone should always be careful about backing up their data, etc. If using disk utility to modify what is clearly my SD card were somehow to erase my entire computer, I could easily replace everything from Time Machine (which I've done once before when my HD died). I don't want to go out of my way to wipe my computer, obviously, but if it somehow did happen I wouldn't lose all my data. Its always a good idea to make sure you're in a safe position like that.

Also, I think that asking people to learn an entire programming language rather than just giving clear instructions for this one step would discourage a lot of potential CHDK users, and I'm thinking that in the long run its more advantageous to have more people interested in CHDK, learning to use it, able to answer questions, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to try to help me with this. I think my plan is to try copying the files using a PC at school, and if that doesn't work I will probably buy another 4 gig card.
« Last Edit: 10 / May / 2009, 15:48:33 by CanonBlue »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #16 on: 10 / May / 2009, 16:28:35 »
Quote from: CanonBlue on 10 / May / 2009, 15:45:42
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Did you actually check with ls -la@ ? It would be unsurprising if mac did slightly different things between FAT32 and FAT12 or different partition types.

I'm not sure who/what that is, so no
Read that again section and follow the instructions, it's not complicated.
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That's what I've done and it doesn't work. Are you sure its "known to work" on a mac?
It's known to work on any system that can just copy a file in the standard manner without doing some bizarre extra garbage you didn't ask for behind the scenes.
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Also, I think that asking people to learn an entire programming language rather than just giving clear instructions for this one step would discourage a lot of potential CHDK users, and I'm thinking that in the long run its more advantageous to have more people interested in CHDK, learning to use it, able to answer questions, etc.
Learning a few shell commands isn't an "entire programming language", and I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm telling you what is actually required right now. It would be great if it was all simple and easy but it isn't. Either take the time to learn what you need to learn, or don't use it. Your choice.
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Offline CanonBlue

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #17 on: 10 / May / 2009, 17:09:31 »
Success! I tried removing the quarantine stuff using the commands given at the end of the FAQ, and it worked. I now get a Firm Update menu. Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread, it was very helpful. I guess I should have just tried those commands earlier, but the reason that I didn't is that I didn't understand what they were doing or if they applied to this, and as reyalp says, its a good idea to minimize using unknown commands. I also thought that they were talking about problems with the autoboot method, not the firmware update method, so it seemed like they didn't apply to this problem. Clearly they did, so although I've yet to try editing a wiki, maybe I'll try to put in the lack of a Firm Update menu as a particular problem that can occur with the Mac installation.

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A few other comments:

Having read through the Mac FAQ again, I don't think its clear what the -la@ is referring to. Is it a command to type into Terminal? It just says "here's what I got" and gives some sample results. I guess it might be clearer to people who have more experience with this context. Anyway, I ended up just trying the commands to remove the flags without using the -la@ (which I think was some sort of test to see if the flags were there?) and it did work successfully, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

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It's known to work on any system that can just copy a file in the standard manner without doing some bizarre extra garbage you didn't ask for behind the scenes.


Heh, nice little dig at macs. They do have their drawbacks, but I think this particular issue is supposed to be a security feature to prevent viruses. It would be nice if they included an obvious option to disable it, but nothing's perfect. Anyway I guess what you're saying is that its NOT known to work on Macs ;-)

Anyway, I'm sorry if I came off as rude. I was just objecting to the idea that I have to understand every detail of this process in order to avoid erasing my entire computer. To avoid erasing my computer, I just have to understand enough of the process to know what drive I'm modifying. Its very easy to reformat an SD card, so if I mess it up it really doesn't matter. All that matters in terms of safety is making sure that I'm only modifying the SD card. You're right, of course, that in order to troubleshoot and fix mistakes, you need a higher level of understanding. But I don't think that you need that level of understanding for the specific purpose of not erasing your hard drive.

Edit: The reason all my posts are edited is that apparently when I type in the quote code by hand it doesn't work, and when I use the quote button it does. Even though as far as I can tell its producing the same text each time...
« Last Edit: 10 / May / 2009, 17:44:21 by CanonBlue »
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Offline mweerden

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #18 on: 10 / May / 2009, 18:07:31 »
Quote from: CanonBlue on 10 / May / 2009, 17:09:31
Success!

Great!

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... although I've yet to try editing a wiki, maybe I'll try to put in the lack of a Firm Update menu as a particular problem that can occur with the Mac installation.

Please do.

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Having read through the Mac FAQ again, I don't think its clear what the -la@ is referring to. Is it a command to type into Terminal? It just says "here's what I got" and gives some sample results. I guess it might be clearer to people who have more experience with this context. Anyway, I ended up just trying the commands to remove the flags without using the -la@ (which I think was some sort of test to see if the flags were there?) and it did work successfully, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

The '-la@' is nothing, but the 'ls -al' is indeed a command to type into your terminal that lists the contents of the current directory. You can usually type 'man <program>' (in this case 'man ls') in your terminal to get information about a program (like what it does and what flags like -al do).

Quote
Edit: The reason all my posts are edited is that apparently when I type in the quote code by hand it doesn't work, and when I use the quote button it does. Even though as far as I can tell its producing the same text each time...

It's probably your Mac. :P
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Offline CanonBlue

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Re: Can I use an 8 gig card for the SD1100 / Ixus80?
« Reply #19 on: 10 / May / 2009, 18:16:24 »
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It's probably your Mac.

Haha it totally might be. Actually I still haven't figured it out-- on most message boards I just type brackets with quote and /quote and it works, but on this one it seems to be picky about where the carriage returns are... At least, that's the only difference I've noticed between me typing the quote tags by hand, and using the button to do them. I've also had zero success with making links with a name of my choice for the target url. I thought I had it working on other similar boards... oh well. I've looked around and I don't see a list of forum code for this forum, so I'm not sure if it uses anything other than standard BBC code? That's what I've been trying to use.

Edit: I think the problem is that I can't tell the difference between \ and /  ....   :-/
« Last Edit: 10 / May / 2009, 18:29:20 by CanonBlue »
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