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Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)

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Offline NewbieToobie

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #30 on: 15 / July / 2009, 15:47:31 »
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I'm not a coder, but after reading this I can understand why people would get upset when Microfunguy steals all their hard work, takes credit for it, and then never gives anything back. That's about as damaging to a group effort as I've ever seen. I wonder if this is why so many of the original programmers aren't around today. They probably just walked away because Microfunguy was stealing it all and never giving back in return.

How sad is that.

But then I guess people like Microfunguy never will figure out that he's making the very same people go away that all his work is dependent on. Shooting himself in his own foot.

Some people aren't too bright, even if they are coders.

Maybe the clue has been in his name all along. In science communities fungi are considred parasites too. Eventually destroying and decomposing the source that they feed on.

« Last Edit: 15 / July / 2009, 17:37:30 by NewbieToobie »
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Offline fvdk

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #31 on: 15 / July / 2009, 17:53:21 »
Quote from: NewbieToobie on 15 / July / 2009, 15:47:31
I'm not a coder, but after reading this I can understand why people would get upset when Microfunguy steals all their hard work, takes credit for it, and then never gives anything back. That's about as damaging to a group effort as I've ever seen. I wonder if this is why so many of the original programmers aren't around today. They probably just walked away because Microfunguy was stealing it all and never giving back in return.

Sigh....

I'll try it one more time and than I'll stop since some people will probably never get it.

David is not stealing anything. You guys keep mentioning the GPL so here are a few quotes directly from the GPL site:

That you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.
If you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code.

You guys seem to think that any project derived from CHDK should be a 'fork' of CHDK but There is NO REQUIREMENT to be part of any group or to create a 'fork' from the original code.

And about giving back....
I think that giving back SDM, which serves an whole other public than CHDK, although it might very well be useful for CHDK users as well, is very much "giving back".

Quote
But then I guess people like Microfunguy never will figure out that he's making the very same people go away that all his work is dependent on. Shooting himself in his own foot.

Let me see if I get this right?
You guys don't like SDM and you don't use it. It does not interfere with CHDK and CHDK is not depending on SDM yet, the fact that David does not use comments or SVN, would be a reason for CHDK coders to go away and abandon CHDK? If so, than I guess that your remark....
Quote
Some people aren't too bright, even if they are coders.
is true.

A few thoughts.....

If you don't like SDM or David, too bad but that is your problem.

If you think that calling him names or flaming him will make him go away..... not likely to happen.

If you think that all of this is making it more likely that he will cooperate with you...... think again.

If there is something in SDM that you would like to use in CHDK, just ask him and I am sure that he will tell you how it's done (at least to the people who treat him normally).

And finally, some interesting reading about the history of CHDK, including the discussions on 'DP Review' dating back to 2006 before this forum and the WIKI were even started.

http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/chdk.htm

Frans
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Offline NewbieToobie

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #32 on: 15 / July / 2009, 18:32:15 »
Quote from: fvdk on 15 / July / 2009, 17:53:21


Sigh....

I'll try it one more time and than I'll stop since some people will probably never get it.

No, you and all supporters of SDM are the ones that don't get it and probably never will get it. Not only is he a parasite of CHDK, he's even a parasite of CHDK forums. The very same thing he does with CHDK source code is the very same thing he is doing on the CHDK forums here. Taking from everyone, using their platform for discussion, and then promoting his own damaged ego.

You are helping to cut off any new ideas from reaching you and your beloved CHDK SDM.

If MicroParasite doesn't want to be part of the CHDK community, then he shouldn't be using these forums either. Always taking, always using others for his own benefit, never giving back.

Got it?

This makes all of you stereo buffs look like just as big of parasites as your "david".


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Offline PhyrePhoX

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #33 on: 15 / July / 2009, 18:38:04 »
hey hey hey now. i avoided this thread for a long time. please stop talking in an aggressive voice like that. nobody is a parasite. this is gpl, this was intended by chdks "fathers". please dont fight over something so unimportant.
the only thing i'm missing is a statement from David, thats all. he manages to post in other threads and he manages to adress us directly in the wiki (in a very unfriendly way...), but he is avoiding this thread here. i don't get it.
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Offline vostok

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #34 on: 15 / July / 2009, 18:51:16 »
True. He's got a bunch of dudes defending him, but hasn't got much to say himself. Baffling.
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Offline fvdk

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #35 on: 15 / July / 2009, 19:27:19 »
Quote from: PhyrePhoX on 15 / July / 2009, 18:38:04
hey hey hey now. i avoided this thread for a long time. please stop talking in an aggressive voice like that. nobody is a parasite. this is gpl, this was intended by chdks "fathers". please dont fight over something so unimportant.

I am not the one who started this nor will I ever be.

The only reason I am defending David, is because he probably is to wise to respond to unfunded accusations and because I don't like it if a group of people is attacking a single person.

Quote
 
the only thing i'm missing is a statement from David, thats all. he manages to post in other threads and he manages to adress us directly in the wiki (in a very unfriendly way...), but he is avoiding this thread here. i don't get it.

I do, he made statements to similar accusations in the past and that didn't help so why should he repeat himself.
Apart from.... "you are right, I am wrong and I will comply" there is nothing that seems be acceptable to certain people.

And as for me.... I like CHDK, I like SDM. Sometimes I use one, sometimes the other. I have the utmost respect for all the CHDK developers as well as for David and I wished that everybody just used this forum for what it is intended for, discussing CHDK as well as SDM and not use it to ventilate a personal grudge to anyone. We are all adults and should behave accordingly and not as spoiled children if things are not like we want them to be.

Frans
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #36 on: 15 / July / 2009, 19:30:10 »
Quote from: NewbieToobie on 15 / July / 2009, 18:32:15
If MicroParasite doesn't want to be part of the CHDK community, then he shouldn't be using these forums either. Always taking, always using others for his own benefit, never giving back.
I just want to say that I don't agree with this. I wish David would contribute back more, or at least make it easier to use his work, but calling him and the SDM users names is not productive, and he has as much right to use this forum as anyone. While a lot of his posts boil down to "use SDM" there's no reason to think SDM won't do what he says in those cases.

Characterizing what David does as with SDM as "stealing" is simply wrong. Rude ? IMO yes. Theft ? No.

@fvdk
There's a difference between meeting the minimum requirements of the license and exercising basic common courtesy. Doing the former doesn't excuse the latter. I'm still waiting for the explanation of why he feels the need to strip comments out of the source.
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Offline SubSpaceJ

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #37 on: 16 / July / 2009, 22:15:52 »
Hello, new to chdk (and because of it, also Canon cameras, I'll get mine tomorrow)

I think much of the feelings against what david does is against the spirit of the GPL licence. It's there to grant spreading of the code, and also make sure that any derivates can benefit the rest of the community.

So, boldly striding in after reading the whole thread here are my comments:
Quote from: PhyrePhoX on 15 / July / 2009, 18:38:04
hey hey hey now. i avoided this thread for a long time. please stop talking in an aggressive voice like that. nobody is a parasite. this is gpl, this was intended by chdks "fathers". please dont fight over something so unimportant.
I agree that an agressive tone does not help - but lol, calling the gpl unimportant souds like flame material to me. No? :D
Quote from: fvdk on 12 / July / 2009, 12:26:46


But even if he would (what again, he is not), the GPL licence states:
"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish)."
So don't see how bugsplatters comment hits the nail on the hat.


Yes, but to gain those freedoms he has to comply with the requirements of the GPL licence, and I think what upsets people here is that they are dissatisfied over how david adhered to section 2 a)

Quote from: GPL
2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

   a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
    stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

I think David started out wrong (in ignoance of the GPL), and has now ended up with a mixture of his code with code that others have copyright to. And also a potential GPL breach?.

Bear in mind that _I AM NOT_ an expert on GPL. I have just read it trough once, trying to understand it.

Am I correct in assuming that deciding and using a given CHDK version as a base, and keeping it's structure (comments and indentation, files) would be an acceptable (but not optimal) way of doing a fork?
« Last Edit: 16 / July / 2009, 22:40:13 by SubSpaceJ »
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Offline mr.burns

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Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #38 on: 17 / July / 2009, 02:24:56 »
Hi fvdk,

CHDK is NOT a hacked version of the original copyrighted Canon software.
It is an additional software which runs as a spytask together with the original Canon software on the cam.
It just hooks into the original software, runs paralell, but is not a hacked version. So of course it can be under the GPL.
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databoy

Re: Source for SDM (Stereo Data Maker)
« Reply #39 on: 17 / July / 2009, 05:28:59 »
I think there are too many people smoking fairy dust and blowing hot air out of the tail pipe.

I think that those people should gain employment in industry and find out how the wheels of commerce turns.

How many commercial distros of Linux in circulation.

Has anyone told RedHat not to sell Linux.
Has anyone told Ubuntu not to rip off Debian.

I downloaded the source code and executable for SDM 1.8.
SDM did not cost me anything to download.
I am not a programmer so the source code does not mean anything to me.

CHDK will never turn a Canon point and shoot into a professional DSLR.
CHDK is a teaching aide which will enable intelligent programmers to find a job in industry.
CHDK is also a teaching aide which will enable people to learn and unlock the potential of their camera and use their camera for jobs where DSLR's used to dominate.

Therefore I cannot see what all the hot air is about.

Something to consider:

Microsoft: One head chef. 20,000 kitchen hands aspiring to become chefs.

GPL: 20,000 kitchen hands who believe that they are the head chef.

Moral of the story:

If builders built houses like programmers wrote programs,
the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilisation.

That is why you never allow a programmer to manage a project. 
« Last Edit: 17 / July / 2009, 05:51:16 by databoy »
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