Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

reyalp

11801

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #10 on: 14 / August / 2009, 04:42:09 »

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Quote from: whoever on 13 / August / 2009, 13:17:36

Quote
... but there are many ways it could do this.
Ah yes, of course you're right. I'm getting sloppy... And doesn't a cold reboot actually start the bootcore at FFFF0000 rather than directly the FW at FF810000/FFC0000 ?

Correct.

Interesting stuff. I wonder if the model difference is AA vs. canon lithium batteries.

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Don't forget what the H stands for.

fbonomi

469
A570IS SD1100/Ixus80

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #11 on: 14 / August / 2009, 07:49:33 »

Yes, I think the temperature ranges are there for li-ion batteries.

Hi have no hard evidence to support this, but I have been told Li-ion batteries tend to be hurt more if exposed extreme temperatures.

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fudgey

1705
a570is

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #12 on: 14 / August / 2009, 12:13:54 »

To make sure everyone's talking about the same thing here: This difference in low battery sensitivity with CHDK vs without CHDK seems to only affect shutdown, not the warning icon. It started in bugsplatter's thread, here: http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,3872.

For the easiest way to test if your camera has this behavior in a noticeable amount, keep using your camera (with CHDK) normally. The next time it shuts down due to battery low and demands battery replacement/charging, restart the camera without CHDK and see if it will let you keep taking photos.

If it does, start CHDK and see if it will again shut down soon (in REC mode obviously, nearly empty batteries will run PLAY mode for ages). Then disable CHDK again etc etc, keep repeating until you're convinced that there either is or is not a noticeable difference.

People who know their way around an electronics lab can of course test quicker using an adjustable external power supply. Anyway, it's good to hear not all cameras are affected, at least not noticeably!

Those temperature ranges can be used for any type of battery, but it's quite understandable that they are not used in an AA cell a570, because it may be operated from a wide variety of cell chemistries (NiMH rechargables and non-rechargable alkaline and Lithium batteries being the usual suspects) and their temperature behavior is likely not similar enough.

For cameras with rechargable Lithium batteries specified by Canon, it's actually possible to know how temperature affects battery voltage, and use that information to make battery gauging more accurate. From whoever's IXUS950 table it would seem that battery warning may be enabled at a higher cell voltage when the battery is running hot than when it's cool. Some cameras may even lack the required temperature sensor, but all original lithium batteries will have one built in.

But if I'm not mistaken, this table is just a small part of the battery handling. For example, it's very probably these particular values have nothing to do with preventing lithium batteries from spontaneously combusting due to excessive temperature.

Oh and I do have some bad news too: I've now used the camera a bit more and it looks like I've only disabled one of the ways the camera uses to decide the battery to be weak. I still sometimes get the blinking battery icon after fiddling with the camera for a while longer than just a regular single shot even though my override values are not overwritten.

Maybe this table is just for a simple battery status deduction from threshold voltages, while more sophisticated voltage fluctuation/load monitoring may decide otherwise at a later time regardless of these values. In any case I'll keep using the patch since it does make the camera significantly less annoying as the battery icon never blinks right from the start like it otherwise would.

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ewavr

1057
A710IS

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #13 on: 14 / August / 2009, 19:47:08 »

BTW, in my A710:
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1132,0) - camera shutdowns with "replace batteries message"
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1133,0) - red battery icon starts blinking
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1135,0) - red battery icon stops blinking

Some "magic values" (0x1132, 0x1133) found in sub_FFC1B2DC.

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fudgey

1705
a570is

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #14 on: 15 / August / 2009, 05:10:30 »

Quote from: ewavr on 14 / August / 2009, 19:47:08

BTW, in my A710:
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1132,0) - camera shutdowns with "replace batteries message"
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1133,0) - red battery icon starts blinking
PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1135,0) - red battery icon stops blinking

Some "magic values" (0x1132, 0x1133) found in sub_FFC1B2DC.

Cool! I had commented parts of that function already, but was on my todo list to continue with it.

In a570 100e that function is ffde2a68 and the equivalent values are:

0x1131 -> 0x1140+0x21 = 0x1161 (SysLow)
0x1132 -> 0x1140+0x22 (LowBat)
0x1133 -> 0x1140+0x23 (Weak)
0x1134 -> 0x1140+0x24 (PreWeak)
0x1135 -> supposedly 0x1165

Wasn't 0x1134 enough to get rid of the icon blinker, btw? I haven't tried any of this yet.

I suppose periodically posting this message can't get rid of the icon drawing completely, but it may be nearly 100% away from sight because if I'm not badly mistaken battery test takes for a while, especially if that threshold thing from above is also active.

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ewavr

1057
A710IS

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #15 on: 15 / August / 2009, 10:52:09 »

Quote from: fudgey on 15 / August / 2009, 05:10:30

Wasn't 0x1134 enough to get rid of the icon blinker, btw? I haven't tried any of this yet.

If battery icon is blinking due to low battery, single call of postlogicalevent(0x1135,...) is enough to stop it blinking (at least for a710).

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fudgey

1705
a570is

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #16 on: 17 / August / 2009, 12:48:50 »

Quote from: ewavr on 15 / August / 2009, 10:52:09

Quote from: fudgey on 15 / August / 2009, 05:10:30
Wasn't 0x1134 enough to get rid of the icon blinker, btw? I haven't tried any of this yet.
If battery icon is blinking due to low battery, single call of postlogicalevent(0x1135,...) is enough to stop it blinking (at least for a710).

Yes... I was just wondering if 0x1134 (PreWeak) would be enough to remove the blink; after all some cameras have a level between warning and full that could be this PreWeak state on screen (I think? Anyone know any such model? Do they have an icon always visible, and how does it behave?), and as such might be a good idea to override to that status instead of battery full status.

But anyway, I tried 0x1164 and 0x1165 on my a570, and only 0x1165 has the desired effect. And it works pretty well because the warning icon doesn't seem to reappear (I didn't remove my patch to try this, but I'm guessing it doesn't interfere... and I didn't operate the cam for hours or until battery exhaust, just a couple of ordinary but rather lengthy shooting sessions with batteries that previously were always warning, even when fully charged).

I think it would suffice to monitor 0x54510 (on a570 it gets values 0,1,2,4 meaning syslow,low,weak,full...it's used all over the battery code, e.g. in function SetBattCheckMode) until it changes from 0x4 to 0x2 (which is when the battery warning icon will start to blink) and after a small delay to let Canon's code fully work it's magic, call PostLogicalEventToUI(0x1165, 0).

CHDK's battery indicator could of course reflect the value of 0x54510 (e.g. by changing color of voltage/icon/percentage, whichever selected) and no information would be lost to the user when battery warning override is active.

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whoever

280
IXUS950

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #17 on: 17 / August / 2009, 13:50:27 »

Quote

CHDK's battery indicator could of course reflect the value of 0x54510 (e.g. by changing color of voltage/icon/percentage, whichever selected) and no information would be lost to the user when battery warning override is active.

Which brings up the question: What's actually wrong with the low-battery icon? Isn't it a useful sign of the upcoming shutdown? The CHDK battery indicator does not provide such information -- it may happily be in the "green", despite the fact that the battery is bad and cannot withstand any further load. But the camera OS knows better, as it has seen battery lows under load, and based on that, perhaps analyzed how reliable the particular battery is. (Of course, there might/should be differences between the models related to the battery type, e.g. AA vs Li-ion.)

The difference in the battery thresholds with/without CHDK is a whole different issue that would be really interesting to resolve -- for the affected cameras, obviously.

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fudgey

1705
a570is

Re: Disabling Canon's blinking battery warning icon

« Reply #18 on: 17 / August / 2009, 14:27:21 »

Quote from: whoever on 17 / August / 2009, 13:50:27

Which brings up the question: What's actually wrong with the low-battery icon? Isn't it a useful sign of the upcoming shutdown? The CHDK battery indicator does not provide such information -- it may happily be in the "green", despite the fact that the battery is bad and cannot withstand any further load. But the camera OS knows better, as it has seen battery lows under load, and based on that, perhaps analyzed how reliable the particular battery is. (Of course, there might/should be differences between the models related to the battery type, e.g. AA vs Li-ion.)

This may only be a problem with dual AA cell cameras, and only when using NiMH cells. These cameras have battery low detection best suited for alkaline non-rechargables, whose voltage is a lot higher than that of NiMH cells. Canon does sell NiMH cells as an accessory and the cameras do work with them of course. Still, even with a fairly new high quality pair of NiMH cells, the battery low indicator lights up early.

For my no longer new but still very much healthy pairs of NiMH batteries, the battery indicator blinks almost 100 % of the time, right from the first time I enter REC mode! Still these cells can give me several hours of timelapse use or a decent life in regular photography. Of course not as good life as a new pair, but they are far from retirement.

The battery icon is rather large and I find its blinking very distracting (if the camera really was going to shut down after a few shots I'd be happy it distracted me, but it isn't going to shut down any time soon). Because it blinks, it repeatedly overwrites CHDK OSD placed under it (I like to place my battery voltage and remaining disk space readings up there somewhere, not overlapping other Canon OSD).

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that battery low warning override should be default behavior...definitely not. But I believe all the information Canon's low bat icon provides can be added to CHDK battery indicator with ease if the override is activated. For me that will remove double indication, unclutter the OSD and will make the camera a whole lot less annoying.

Quote from: whoever on 17 / August / 2009, 13:50:27

The difference in the battery thresholds with/without CHDK is a whole different issue that would be really interesting to resolve -- for the affected cameras, obviously.

Yep, that's a different thing entirely.

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