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SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?

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Offline srulz

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SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« on: 07 / September / 2009, 10:24:29 »
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Hy, I have SX10, and one of the feature that i miss is HD movie format... I use this camera to make some movies, but when I see these movies on my lcd TV, I realise, that, this movie format is quite important when you try to watch the movie on TV. So, will be able CHDK, in the future releases, to change the movie capture format from 640x480 to 720p or fullHD format ?
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Offline whim

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #1 on: 07 / September / 2009, 12:19:55 »
Very unlikely, IMHO
video encoding is a task that is performed by dedicated hardware, the only thing CHDK can do so far
on most cams is changing the compression ratio.
you could also look at it another way: if the hardware could handle it, why would Canon disable it ?
makes no sense, marketing-wise ...

HTH,
wim
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Offline srulz

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #2 on: 07 / September / 2009, 14:00:21 »
Thank you for answering my question, but, I checked on http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sx20is.asp and, I found that the new SX20 has the same hardware like SX10 (same cpu, same lens, etc...) so I'm sure that all SX20 hardware capabilities are the same like SX10, but Canon, did not want to ofer HD-movie format for SX10 because, I think, this can be a very good competitor with SX1... So, if we think about that video encoding is a task that is performed by dedicated hardware, and in this case, SX10 hardare is the same with SX20, I cannot to think that it is possible someway to have HD-movie format on SX10, maybe a firmware update, or something... otherwise why Canon disable acces to RAW format and other features ?
« Last Edit: 07 / September / 2009, 14:05:42 by srulz »
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Offline reyalp

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #3 on: 07 / September / 2009, 19:07:05 »
Quote from: srulz on 07 / September / 2009, 14:00:21
So, if we think about that video encoding is a task that is performed by dedicated hardware, and in this case, SX10 hardare is the same with SX20, I cannot to think that it is possible someway to have HD-movie format on SX10, maybe a firmware update
I would bet a against it. Even if "digic IV" actually refers to identical hardware (which isn't a given, it's a marketing name) you still need a sensor that is capable of reading out video at HD speed, and sufficient memory and IO bandwidth to encode and write the video. The camera system isn't just the CPU, the sensor, ADC and IO systems are all important, and it is likely that canon specs these as low as they can for a given model.
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Offline srulz

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #4 on: 08 / September / 2009, 06:21:00 »
Ok, I agree all of that things are true, but, I cannot imagine that Panasonic FZ28 or Fujii S2000HD hardware's are so powerfull to be able to make this type of movie capture and SX10 not... Of course, Canon will never reveal the complete hardware specs, because, if sx20 is in fact sx10, that can be a problem for them...
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Offline yvesson

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #5 on: 08 / September / 2009, 06:55:50 »
Quote from: whim on 07 / September / 2009, 12:19:55
you could also look at it another way: if the hardware could handle it, why would Canon disable it ?
makes no sense, marketing-wise ...

Hej,
Maybe you can try and sell a SX1 IS 200 euros more ? I just can't trust marketing. ^^

It's probably possible to find out what that sensor is capable of, cause probably that 10 Mpixels 1/2.3' sony senor has been put in many many cams. I think panasonic use theirs and not sony's, though.
I don't care about HD myself, though discovering ways to set any video size and framerate that a given camera is capable of would be huge.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #6 on: 08 / September / 2009, 20:39:32 »
Quote from: srulz on 08 / September / 2009, 06:21:00
Ok, I agree all of that things are true, but, I cannot imagine that Panasonic FZ28 or Fujii S2000HD hardware's are so powerfull to be able to make this type of movie capture and SX10 not...
You still aren't getting it. It's not hardware that's "so powerfull" it's hardware that's designed for a certain throughput. Why would canon spec the bandwidth needed to do HD if they aren't going to offer that feature ?

Personally, I suspect that some key component on the non-HD cameras is simply not up to it. The SD990 was their top of the line bragging rights/fashion statement pocket cam. HD would be the prefect marketing checkbox item for something like that, yet it isn't there. Since it's the top price point, they wouldn't be worried about it stealing market something else in their linup. G10, which was in a somewhat similar position and used the same sensor also didn't have HD.

AFAIK, none of the first gen digic IV cams had HD, except the SX1. Yet quite a few competitors of those cameras did. If canon could have just switched it on, they would have. Instead, HD had to wait for the current product refresh (SX20 etc). This is confirmed by the fact that high end of canons new line up does support HD, from the Ixus through the SX series.
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Offline RaduP

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #7 on: 08 / September / 2009, 21:17:49 »
On some sensors it is not possible to read 720 lines (and even if you could, you'd need to do some cropping to have 1280x720, so you probably need over 1K lines).
However, I am pretty sure Canon could have offered a higher video resolution, maybe 800x640, after all there is an option to increase the bitrate in CHDK, so there is some spare CPU and bandwidth.
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Offline srulz

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #8 on: 09 / September / 2009, 17:04:40 »
Quote from: reyalp on 08 / September / 2009, 20:39:32
Quote from: srulz on 08 / September / 2009, 06:21:00
Ok, I agree all of that things are true, but, I cannot imagine that Panasonic FZ28 or Fujii S2000HD hardware's are so powerfull to be able to make this type of movie capture and SX10 not...
You still aren't getting it. It's not hardware that's "so powerfull" it's hardware that's designed for a certain throughput. Why would canon spec the bandwidth needed to do HD if they aren't going to offer that feature ?

Personally, I suspect that some key component on the non-HD cameras is simply not up to it. The SD990 was their top of the line bragging rights/fashion statement pocket cam. HD would be the prefect marketing checkbox item for something like that, yet it isn't there. Since it's the top price point, they wouldn't be worried about it stealing market something else in their linup. G10, which was in a somewhat similar position and used the same sensor also didn't have HD.

AFAIK, none of the first gen digic IV cams had HD, except the SX1. Yet quite a few competitors of those cameras did. If canon could have just switched it on, they would have. Instead, HD had to wait for the current product refresh (SX20 etc). This is confirmed by the fact that high end of canons new line up does support HD, from the Ixus through the SX series.


I'm sorry, my question is if SX10 hardware is able to make HD format or something better than 640x480, because, this format I cannot use properly on my LCD TV (16:9)... it is so bad to view 4:3 format in 16:9, so even the sound has good quality, the image is not. If I use a CRT TV 4:3 format image is ok (full screen), but, I do not want to change my TV... let be serios... that's why, reading SX20 specs, I cannot to wonder why, Canon did not offer an intermediar resolution for video capture, something that it can be watch on a 16:9 tv screen, maybe 640x360...

And about why Canon aren't going to offer that feature, there are a lot of questions... if I'm not wrong, the new G11 have not HD-movie capabilities, so...
« Last Edit: 09 / September / 2009, 17:10:17 by srulz »
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Offline RaduP

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Re: SX10 will be able to make HD Movie with CHDK ?
« Reply #9 on: 09 / September / 2009, 19:46:28 »
It's about the sensor used in the SX10, I guess it can't output 720 lines or something..
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