SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes - General Discussion and Assistance

barberofcivil

268

SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« on: 05 / November / 2009, 11:30:11 »

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When I was previously exploring the ISO3200 mode in the firmware, I found some mode numbers referred to that didn't correspond with real camera modes. I did a build which implemented the "set_capture_mode_type" operation to force camera modes (setting the property cases didn't seem to work) and quickly did some tests on these additonal mode numbers (plus other ones which weren't referred to in the FW, some of the unreferenced ones did seem to have some effects with exposure and white balance, plus colour swap and colour accent).
All the "hidden" modes (those that are referenced, but not camera selectable) were found to be as follows (these modes do correspond to modes available on other cameras):

Mode No.	Mode Name	Icon	Icon Desc.
16414	ISO6400	Exif/Play Icon	:ISO6400 (similar to ISO3200)
32784	Kids&Pets	Exif/Play+Rec Icon	:Child&Dog
32791	Underwater	Exif/Play Icon	:Fish (angelfish w/bubbles, different from aquarium)
32793	Fast Shutter	Exif/Play Icon	:Same as sports
32794	Slow Shutter	Exif/Play Icon	:Kinda like Philadelphia Flyers logo
33288	Digital Macro	Exif/Play Icon	:Flower w/D inside (similar to Super Macro)
33295	Creative Light Effect	Exif/Play Icon	:Person w/heart & star behind
33311	Easy	Exif/Play Icon	:Camera outline w/ heart
33312	Quick Shot	Exif/Play Icon	:camera w/"movement lines"

of Note:
The only hidden mode that has a screen icon in Rec mode is the Kids&Pets mode, the rest have blank icons.
The Play/Exif icons listed are what are recorded in the exif and viewable on playback or in exif info.
Mode Names are recorded in exif.

ISO6400 mode does nothing of note, appears to act like auto mode

The Kids&Pets and Underwater modes seem to have some exposure/colour effects.

Fast and Slow Shutter modes, do as they are supposed to, fix the exposure, ut adjust AV/TV to get the maximum or minimum shutter speed, ISO seems to be fixed at 400.

Digital Macro works. Lens is kept at wide angle location and locked (no opticla zoom), but digital zoom is enabled and can focus at macro distances.

Creative Light Effect does nothing apparent
Unsure if Easy and Quick Shot have any real effects or act as Auto modes

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sparky72

7
A650is SX-10is

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #1 on: 06 / November / 2009, 04:56:59 »

...very interesting discover...

It will be interesting for me to have the child&pets and digital macro funcs to test.
Are you planning to release your build or a patch??

Kind regards

Giorgio

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yvesson

209
A540 SX10IS

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #2 on: 06 / November / 2009, 05:19:34 »

Hej,
Would be more interesting to find Av, Tv in cameras without them ! Sounds possible or I'm missunderstanding something ?

Like canon uses the same base for all firmwares for all cameras so the mode are in every camera but just hidden in some cameras ?

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fudgey

1705
a570is

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #3 on: 06 / November / 2009, 12:03:12 »

Quote from: yvesson on 06 / November / 2009, 05:19:34

Would be more interesting to find Av, Tv in cameras without them ! Sounds possible or I'm missunderstanding something ?

Like canon uses the same base for all firmwares for all cameras so the mode are in every camera but just hidden in some cameras ?

Av will never be found from cameras that don't have it. If I'm not mistaken, Canon already puts Av mode in all cameras that have an adjustable aperture (iris).

Yes, all cameras share code with a whole lot of other Digic II/III/IV cameras, and the set of mode names is largely common to all. Choosing which modes to put on the dial is one of the things they can change with ease when the camera is almost ready for production as long as it has all the required hardware.

Most modes that aren't on the dial but still have some handles in the firmware won't work properly, because the software lacks some parts required for that mode. E.g. my a570 can be forced to custom modes C, C1 and C2 using events, but there's no user interface to work those modes. Similarly switching to Tv mode in a camera that doesn't have that in the mode dial would likely be useless, because the user interface for Tv adjustment probably wouldn't appear.

It would seem on sx10 some of the "hidden" modes could actually be useful. This stuff is of course worth trying, that's how you find out whether any of it works... in some cameras Canon may have decided on the final mode set late and fully implemented more modes than those that ended up on the mode dial.

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whoever

280
IXUS950

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #4 on: 06 / November / 2009, 12:08:04 »

Quote from: yvesson on 06 / November / 2009, 05:19:34

Hej,
Would be more interesting to find Av, Tv in cameras without them ! Sounds possible or I'm missunderstanding something ?

Like canon uses the same base for all firmwares for all cameras so the mode are in every camera but just hidden in some cameras ?

Yes, it should be possible to set the "impossible" modes on most, if not all cameras. Whether these are useful is a whole different issue.

For instance, I can set sort-of "Av" on my Ixus950 with post_levent_to_ui("ModeDialToAv") (perhaps also with SetCurrentCaptureModeType(0x8002) or exec_event_proc("SetCurrentCaptureModeType",0x8002)). It then sets f/# to 8+ no matter what. On an Ixus it actually means that the ND-filter gets permanently engaged. Doesn't seem immediately useful.

Likewise, I can set sort-of "Tv" with post_levent_to_ui("ModeDialToTv") (corresponding mode 0x8003), in which case Tv is permanently set at 1s. Doesn't appear useful either.

Of course, each such mode can be easily imitated with CHDK overrides/scripts.

edit: typos

« Last Edit: 06 / November / 2009, 12:34:24 by whoever »

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yvesson

209
A540 SX10IS

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #5 on: 06 / November / 2009, 12:35:06 »

Hej,
Okej, thanks for the answers.

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barberofcivil

268

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #6 on: 06 / November / 2009, 12:42:04 »

Quote from: fudgey on 06 / November / 2009, 12:03:12

Quote from: yvesson on 06 / November / 2009, 05:19:34
Would be more interesting to find Av, Tv in cameras without them ! Sounds possible or I'm missunderstanding something ?

Like canon uses the same base for all firmwares for all cameras so the mode are in every camera but just hidden in some cameras ?

Av will never be found from cameras that don't have it. If I'm not mistaken, Canon already puts Av mode in all cameras that have an adjustable aperture (iris).

Yes, all cameras share code with a whole lot of other Digic II/III/IV cameras, and the set of mode names is largely common to all. Choosing which modes to put on the dial is one of the things they can change with ease when the camera is almost ready for production as long as it has all the required hardware.

Most modes that aren't on the dial but still have some handles in the firmware won't work properly, because the software lacks some parts required for that mode. E.g. my a570 can be forced to custom modes C, C1 and C2 using events, but there's no user interface to work those modes. Similarly switching to Tv mode in a camera that doesn't have that in the mode dial would likely be useless, because the user interface for Tv adjustment probably wouldn't appear.

It would seem on sx10 some of the "hidden" modes could actually be useful. This stuff is of course worth trying, that's how you find out whether any of it works... in some cameras Canon may have decided on the final mode set late and fully implemented more modes than those that ended up on the mode dial.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying here. I know the modes aren't really "hidden", they are just part of the generic software that are either added in or not to particular camera models. Just because they are there and we can force them, it doesn't mean they have the software/hardware to actually use the mode.

Also, as I stated in my original post, the only mode that actually has a designated icon in REC mode is the Kids & Pets, the others only show show up in Play mode as icons and in the exif as names.

For example, there is an ISO6400 mode in the SX10, but it doesn't do anything (certainly not ISO 6400!). It would be curious to know why that is there. From what I can find, there are only DSLRs that actually have this mode. So, 1) is it experimental or reserved for future development on P&S; or 2) do the DSLRs actually share code with the P&S to a certain degree?

I have verified that at least the Digital Macro, Fast Shutter and Slow Shutter modes still appear to do what they should be expected to do.

Av mode would not be of use to cameras without an adjustable aperture. What cameras don't have a Tv mode? If Tv mode was enablable, do these cameras have the appropriate buttons to adjust the mode, or would it end up just being a dead mode?

I didn't really implement it as a patch, I just used what's there. The "SetCurrentCaptureModeType" function was recently added to the trunk, but was still commented out. All I did was uncomment it and add the LUA syntax registration so I could use it in a script. As I noted before, the setprop function doesn't seem to work for modes, this function is the code that actually changes modes as if the dial has been changed. I have had some instability with it. If I switch to a hidden mode and shut down the camera, it locks up if I enter PlayBack mode, requiring a battery pull (although, I'm not entirely certain that this is the cause, as it does lock up at other times as well). If I switch to a normal mode and do a half shutter press (so that all the mode settings kick in) before shutting down, this seems to fix it.

Whenever the "SetCurrentCaptureModeType" functionality is officially added to the build and LUA/UBASIC, others would be able to use it (unless it is implemented to limit to only available modes).

To add it as a full CHDK override type function, there would need to be a little work and experimentation before doing it officially.

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barberofcivil

268

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #7 on: 06 / November / 2009, 12:51:46 »

I should also note, that some mode numbers outside the regular and 'hidden' range caused the camera to lock up immediately. For example setting to 32768 froze the camera. So this is something that would need to be watched against as well.

The named modes were ones that I had all previously happened to track down in the firmware as available mode values. Some of the itermediate values have some sort of effect, but I'm not always ceratin what, as they don't have a mode name and are called "Auto" in the exif.
eg:

16411 acts as Colour Accent (official mode 16923)
16412 acts as Colour Swap (official mode 16924)

33302 does a long shutter speed. It appears to be minimum 1s.
Other mode numbers seem to have other effects on what Tv/Av/ISO are selected.

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bongo_bingo

167

Re: SX10 - Hidden Capture Modes

« Reply #8 on: 22 / November / 2009, 03:35:01 »

Quote from: barberofcivil on 05 / November / 2009, 11:30:11

...
16414 ISO6400 Exif/Play Icon :ISO6400 (similar to ISO3200)
...
ISO6400 mode does nothing of note, appears to act like auto mode
...

Have you tryed to use it with a lower resolution?

For example, in my g9(which have 12,1 Mp) there's an iso 3200 mode, but it works (and is designed to work) only at 1600x1200.

Anyway cool findings!

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