Will using an override produce quality images?

kezug

« on: 04 / April / 2010, 13:50:29 »

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For example, my G11 only has the ability to do a 15 second Tv at most. I am still puzzled as to why it just didnt go to 30 seconds.. HOwever, with CHDK I can go much longer...my question is this. If I use CHKD to got to 30 seconds..will it produce the same image quality as if Canon would have allowed? Is there some degradation in the image?

I am just wondering if Canon stopped at 15 seconds because their tests show that anything longer will not produce an ideal photo.

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wontolla

413
S3 & G9 & A720

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #1 on: 04 / April / 2010, 14:37:30 »

The longer the sensor is exposed to light, the noisier the picture will come out.

Quote

I am just wondering if Canon stopped at 15 seconds because their tests show that anything longer will not produce an ideal photo.

That could be the case.

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Microfunguy

4037

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #2 on: 04 / April / 2010, 15:53:40 »

My own opinion is that Canon know best what their cameras are capable of.

They have very good reasons for setting the limits that they do.

Some of the CHDK 'enhancements' are of dubious value.

As we say in the UK, it is like 'boy racers' adding 'go-faster stripes' to their cars.

Not everyone wants to believe this, of course.

David

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reyalp

13503

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #3 on: 04 / April / 2010, 19:06:38 »

Quote from: kezug on 04 / April / 2010, 13:50:29

I am just wondering if Canon stopped at 15 seconds because their tests show that anything longer will not produce an ideal photo.

They have limited their P&S cameras to 15 sec for many years. I suspect this is
1) There is very little demand for longer exposures.
2) Quality suffers as exposure time increases.

Quality and demand are both factors. High ISO also produces terrible results on most of these cameras, but it's a high demand feature so the manufacturers push it as far as they can.

It's very unlikely that there is anything magic about 15 seconds, it's just a value of <demand>/<quality> where Canon decided it was no longer worthwhile.

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Don't forget what the H stands for.

fe50

3136
IXUS50 & 860, SX10 Star WARs-Star RAWs

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #4 on: 05 / April / 2010, 08:40:09 »

Quote from: Microfunguy on 04 / April / 2010, 15:53:40

My own opinion is that Canon know best what their cameras are capable of.
They have very good reasons for setting the limits that they do.

Well, the Canon marketing department knows better what their cameras should not offer to the end user, due to market positioning of a camera

Quote

Some of the CHDK 'enhancements' are of dubious value.

LOL - some of the SDM 'enhancements' are of dubious value, too - at least for many users

I guess you're talking about RAW, fast shutter speeds, extra long exposures and similar 'enhancements'.
For most CHDK users this will apply; but there are conditions where those extra features can boost the possibilities to a much higher level.
Also an experienced photographer, a versed programmer, a clever imaging software user or just another creative minded one can reach results which wouldn't even be possible at all or at least not so easy without those 'dubious enhancements' you're talking about here.

Who are we, to decide which features are 'good' and which ones are 'bad', needless or 'dubious' ?
Canon ? Canon marketing dep. ?

IMO we should let the users decide which tools & features they want to use,
also the way they are using those things, even if it sometimes doesn't make sense to us
at a first look - human creativity is a complex thing which often leads to surprising results

(beware - OT below)

Sometimes while i'm editing a Lua script for one of my cameras, an old 'statement' from the CHDK wikia (posted after i started the Lua pages there) comes up to my mind:

LUA is useless CHDK bloat. (the full 'article' is here)
Then i stop for a small moment, and a big, fat smile comes to my face - i LOVE such useless bloat, really !

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-->FIRMWARE DUMPS<-- * Manual * Lua * me

reyalp

13503

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #5 on: 05 / April / 2010, 22:37:08 »

Quote from: fe50 on 05 / April / 2010, 08:40:09

Well, the Canon marketing department knows better what their cameras should not offer to the end user, due to market positioning of a camera

Honestly, I don't see many aspects of the firmware that are deliberately crippled for positioning (the hardware, yes, but such crippling also results in a cost reduction). There are some examples, but this gets brought up for a lot of things that have other more reasonable explanations.

The 15 second limit is a good example: Positioning would mean crippling the lower end cameras to push someone up to the next price point, but the 15 sec limit applies to pretty much everything. Having a 15 sec limit on the P&S isn't going to push any noticeable number of customers from a $100 P&S to a $1000 DSLR.

Deciding that the cost/quality equation doesn't justify a feature, or that an insignificant number of customers would want a particular feature isn't the same as deliberately gimping something to force them to a more profitable model. This is especially true if the quality impacted: Advertising 60 sec exposures when the results are [admin: avoid swearing please] would be worse than not offering it at all. This is still a business decision rather than a technical one, but it's not an arbitrary limit imposed to squeeze more money out of the consumer.

I'm sure canon frequently has good reasons for setting their limits, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is applicable to CHDK users.

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Don't forget what the H stands for.

GeekStyle59

Re: Will using an override produce quality images?

« Reply #6 on: 09 / May / 2010, 05:59:48 »

For the sake of us newbies and rookies, could you gurus comment on other "built in to the technology" image quality factors of CHDK? That is, if I am correct in figuring that extended exposures would also produce more noise on DSLRs -- but that the larger sensor would result in less image degradation than a P&S sensor would.

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