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future of chdk

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Offline dunk

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future of chdk
« on: 05 / July / 2010, 02:32:10 »
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It is my understanding (limited) that the chdk is a hack of the canon powershot cameras. I have recently read snippets here and there that future canons won't have a chdk release. I am presuming that this is because canon has closed these weeknesses in their cameras from being hacked? Is this true?
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Offline reyalp

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #1 on: 05 / July / 2010, 03:03:34 »
Quote from: dunk on 05 / July / 2010, 02:32:10
It is my understanding (limited) that the chdk is a hack of the canon powershot cameras. I have recently read snippets here and there that future canons won't have a chdk release.
Where ? Anyone who tells you they know definitively is misinformed.
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I am presuming that this is because canon has closed these weeknesses in their cameras from being hacked? Is this true?
We are not currently able to run code on the most recent cameras. Until we can, there will be no CHDK for these cameras. There is no way to know whether this will end up being an insurmountable problem, or just a temporary delay.
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Offline hwntw

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #2 on: 05 / July / 2010, 15:57:49 »
Why not, then, consolidate and trim the work already done, by freezing ports to addtional camera models, by making DNG the default CHDK RAW format, by pruning less useful components such as games, by trying to improve the focusing on supported compacts, by dividing CHDK into user and advanced levels (all the shutter speed overrides for example to be advanced, ie unused by the average user) and so on.
CHDK may be produced by developers (all power to them) but it is used by a much wider constituency of users, many of whom have no developer skills.
SDM shows they way to go, since it allows bypassing of the specialist stereo functions, while providing a trim set of useful functions and settings for the general user, which Canon omit.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #3 on: 05 / July / 2010, 16:38:45 »
Quote from: hwntw on 05 / July / 2010, 15:57:49
Why not, then, consolidate and trim the work already done, by freezing ports to addtional camera models, by making DNG the default CHDK RAW format, by pruning less useful components such as games, by trying to improve the focusing on supported compacts, by dividing CHDK into user and advanced levels (all the shutter speed overrides for example to be advanced, ie unused by the average user) and so on.
http://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk post patches when they are ready. I suggest starting with loadable binary support (ala mx3 elf branch), rather than simply hacking out features you personally don't need, because you are never going to get everyone to agree what is "needed" and "advanced" and so on.

Oh, you were expecting someone else to do it ? Right then.

Actually I really like the idea of using a hiatus in ports to do some much needed cleanup, but as always, it's a matter of time. CHDK doesn't put food on the table. Ports are mostly done by people who have the cameras and want CHDK, so a lack of new ports doesn't make much extra developer time available.

The other difficulty in doing general cleanup is that it's very hard to be sure you haven't broken some camera you don't have, so you'd need to have a system of "stable" and "development" releases first.
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Offline hwntw

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #4 on: 05 / July / 2010, 17:46:45 »
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because you are never going to get everyone to agree what is "needed" and "advanced" and so on
CHDK polls give an indication.
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Oh, you were expecting someone else to do it ? Right then.
Tell me how to clear out unwanted bits from the source, games- overrides-file viewer- and I shall re-compile (the limit of my developer knowledge) accordingly.
In a previous post http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,5295.msg52216.html#msg52216 Reyalp said:
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Features are generally added because someone who wanted the feature implemented it, not because it would make CHDK more popular with the general public. If you want this feature, you are welcome to dig into the code.
That is a self-defeating attitude to the Feature Requests subforum, since if contributors could do what you suggest, they would do as you suggest- and CHDK is used by the general public- including yours truly- and not just developers..
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Offline reyalp

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #5 on: 05 / July / 2010, 18:34:28 »
Quote from: hwntw on 05 / July / 2010, 17:46:45
CHDK polls give an indication.
Internet polls are notoriously reliable!
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Tell me how to clear out unwanted bits from the source, games- overrides-file viewer- and I shall re-compile (the limit of my developer knowledge) accordingly.
Games and even the file reader are already a compile time options already. You can use whims excellent gui to build your own CHDK without them, without having any coding knowledge at all. http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Chdkshell

I'm not sure why you'd want to take overrides out, since giving manual control to cameras that don't have it is a one of the core photography features of CHDK. In any case, they use few resources and are deeply integrated in the code, so removing them would be a waste of effort.

Improving the UI and clearly specifying the behavior would be effort well spent.
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That is a self-defeating attitude to the Feature Requests subforum, since if contributors could do what you suggest, they would do as you suggest- and CHDK is used by the general public- including yours truly- and not just developers..
My post was a description of how things actually work. People seem to be under the mistaken impression the CHDK is a "product" that has the goal getting the maximum possible numbers of users or something like that. While that may motivate some contributors, it's not the main force behind code getting written.

Maybe an analogy will help: CHDK isn't a restaurant, it's a community kitchen. If people who don't cook get a tasty meal, that's great, and makes many of the cooks happy, but that's necessarily the reason the meal got cooked in the first place. In this situation "you would get more people eating here if you did X" really isn't a strong argument for doing X.

Don't get me wrong: I'm sure most CHDK contributors do want to make CHDK broadly useful. Helping people do cool things feels good. The mistake I'm trying to clear up is the idea that maximizing the number of users is how we measure success.

Finally, the above is all my personal opinion, not an official position of the "CHDK project". AFAIK, the CHDK project does not have official positions.
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Offline stargeezer

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #6 on: 05 / July / 2010, 23:47:55 »
I am going to add my 2 cents!

I am shocked that anybody would complain about CHDK, I just don't understand some people. :o

1.  It is FREE.
2.  It is developers sharing their hobby.
3.  All work is done because people enjoy doing it.
4.  It greatly enhances the capability of many Canon cameras.

Back to the restaurant analogy, if you don't like the way your steak is cooked, cook it yourself.

Nobody is being forced to use CHDK, and I for one appreciate all the developers that have put their time and effort into this project.  Yes, there are many features that I do not use for my application (at least not yet but I am still learning), but I really don't care.  Those features that I use are fantastic, and I am sure the other features fill a need for someone or they would not have been added.

Again, my thanks to all that have worked on this package, and please ignore any complaints!!
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Offline fe50

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #7 on: 06 / July / 2010, 01:30:35 »
@reyalp: Good analogy, full ack !
@stargezer: also full ack !

Quote from: hwntw on 05 / July / 2010, 15:57:49
SDM shows they way to go

That's your opinion; so if you like SDM - use it, be happy with it !!!
I don't want to go "this way", it's absolutely not my way - and i'm sure, i am not alone in this opinion  ;)
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #8 on: 06 / July / 2010, 04:53:45 »
Who are the current developers for CHDK ?


David
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Offline fudgey

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Re: future of chdk
« Reply #9 on: 06 / July / 2010, 12:57:06 »
Quote from: Microfunguy on 06 / July / 2010, 04:53:45
Who are the current developers for CHDK ?
Even that is a complicated question because a significant share of changes (most new ports) come from people who don't have access to CHDK version control. And out of those that do have access, only few are active. But you can always take a look at http://tools.assembla.com/chdk/timeline to find out who's been committing changes. Lately that has been mainly reyalp and fe50.
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