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Running CHDK with battery door open

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Offline reyalp

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #30 on: 24 / January / 2014, 23:19:32 »
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Quote from: srsa_4c on 24 / January / 2014, 17:47:39
Quote from: nafraf on 24 / January / 2014, 15:32:39
"Plug": Camera has external DC plug input (If used, status of door is irrelevant?)
Based on what two of my cameras do (a470, a460), the location of the external power input doesn't matter, the cam shuts down when the door is opened.
Thanks for the battery type collection btw, I don't remember seeing all that on one page before.
Elph140 runs with the battery door open from the factory. It shuts down if you release the battery latch or try to eject the SD card. It works this way because the AC adapter requires a fake battery, and the door doesn't have a hole in it.

I'm not totally enthusiastic about having the battery door disable code in stock builds. The camera has code to shut down (presumably somewhat cleanly) when you open the door, so there must be some reason for it. It also makes startup slightly slower, for a feature the vast majority of users don't need.

It would be fine as an conf option, except that it needs to happen before conf can be loaded. It would also be fine as build time option.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #31 on: 24 / January / 2014, 23:36:06 »
Quote from: reyalp on 24 / January / 2014, 23:19:32
The camera has code to shut down (presumably somewhat cleanly) when you open the door, so there must be some reason for it.
Ummm ... yea.  The code is there so that if you take the next step and pop the battery loose,  it does not screw things up.

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It also makes startup slightly slower, for a feature the vast majority of users don't need.
Do you actually notice the startup time increase?   I don't.

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It would be fine as an conf option, except that it needs to happen before conf can be loaded. It would also be fine as build time option.
If you are doing script development and haven't figured out how to use chdkptp to do so, being able to leave the battery (and therefore SD Card) door open is a big thing.   My biggest worry in my initial port was breaking the battery door with the number of times I had to open it.  Scripting is not that bad but it's still an issue.

Regardless,  I assume we can "grandfather in" the code that already has it?
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline reyalp

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #32 on: 25 / January / 2014, 00:04:40 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 24 / January / 2014, 23:36:06
Do you actually notice the startup time increase?   I don't.
No, but then I don't have it enabled on any of my cams ;)

IIRC the original delay I came up with just pulled out of thin air anyway, I never tried to figure out the minimum.

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If you are doing script development and haven't figured out how to use chdkptp to do so, being able to leave the battery (and therefore SD Card) door open is a big thing.
I'm so used to having PTP I don't think about it any more, but it's a fair point.

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Regardless,  I assume we can "grandfather in" the code that already has it?
I don't plan to remove from the cams that already support it. I'm just not in a hurry to add it to the rest.
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Offline nafraf

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #33 on: 25 / January / 2014, 00:47:02 »
Quote from: reyalp on 24 / January / 2014, 23:19:32
Elph140 runs with the battery door open from the factory. It shuts down if you release the battery latch or try to eject the SD card. It works this way because the AC adapter requires a fake battery, and the door doesn't have a hole in it.
I think that it is possible to close the battery door, there is a "DC coupler cable port" (Ixus140 manual, page 3, number 12).  A4000 has a similar port. :)

Quote from: waterwingz on 24 / January / 2014, 21:08:27
Quote from: nafraf on 24 / January / 2014, 15:32:39
Battery info is complete:  http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatureTable
Do you have a preferred method of collecting OOBD information?
There is not a preferred method, PM or post.., but If someone update wiki table, I'll integrate that to autogenerator script.

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A1200 :  no  ( I suspect all of the A series camera using AA cells will be no)
I'm not sure about A495, it has external DC plug, IIRC, it works with opened door. I'll tested on next week.
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Offline srsa_4c

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #34 on: 25 / January / 2014, 09:09:02 »
Quote from: reyalp on 25 / January / 2014, 00:04:40
I don't plan to remove from the cams that already support it. I'm just not in a hurry to add it to the rest.
We could add another OPT_ define for this in buildconf.inc, and make it undefined by default?
I'd still like to hear whether the values found by my sigfinder mod (posted earlier in this thread) work on DryOS > r47 cameras...
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #35 on: 25 / January / 2014, 10:51:08 »
Quote from: nafraf on 25 / January / 2014, 00:47:02
I think that it is possible to close the battery door, there is a "DC coupler cable port" (Ixus140 manual, page 3, number 12).
The A1200 has a separate DC jack too.  If an external supply is powering the camera, then its possible start the camera with the battery door open,  or to open the battery door with the camera running and have it stay running.  Because of course the AA cell powered cameras don't have a "door switch" - opening the hatch disconnects the battery physically by removing the link between the two cells.

So OOBD (Operates with Open Battery Door) is "No" unless you have an external DC supply, in which case its "Yes".

I think the original intent was to define if you could open the door while the camera was being powered by its internal battery?  Maybe we can change the possible responses to (  No,  Yes ,  ExtOnly ) ?
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline nafraf

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #36 on: 25 / January / 2014, 11:32:31 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 25 / January / 2014, 10:51:08
I think the original intent was to define if you could open the door while the camera was being powered by its internal battery?  Maybe we can change the possible responses to (  No,  Yes ,  ExtOnly ) ?
Maybe OOBD is not the better description... what if the column is focused on battery door switch?

Column title and values description would be something like:

Battery Door Switch Hack (BDSH): Some cameras have a battery door switch sensor which prevents camera operation if battery door is open.
Yes  Hack present, sensor read is ignored, and camera operates normally when door is open.
No   Hack not implemented, camera does not operate if battery door is open.
N.R. Not Required, camera does not have battery door switch sensor., it operates normally when door is open.


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Offline reyalp

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #37 on: 25 / January / 2014, 15:19:29 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 25 / January / 2014, 10:51:08
Because of course the AA cell powered cameras don't have a "door switch" - opening the hatch disconnects the battery physically by removing the link between the two cells.
FWIW A540 uses AA batteries and does have a door switch, which is engaged by the latch. It shuts down when you disengage the latch, before the contact has been lost.

The behavior with external power is odd. If you open the door, it shuts down. If you open the door and press the power button, the screen stays black... but the camera boots when you close the door, even if though the power button is not being pressed  :-[
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Offline philmoz

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #38 on: 25 / January / 2014, 16:21:25 »
Quote from: srsa_4c on 25 / January / 2014, 09:09:02
Quote from: reyalp on 25 / January / 2014, 00:04:40
I don't plan to remove from the cams that already support it. I'm just not in a hurry to add it to the rest.
We could add another OPT_ define for this in buildconf.inc, and make it undefined by default?
I'd still like to hear whether the values found by my sigfinder mod (posted earlier in this thread) work on DryOS > r47 cameras...

Works on my G1X (r49), I can open the door with the camera running.

It requires the startup delay to boot with the door open.

Is this something that should be compiled in by default or enabled with a build option only for people who really need it?
Shutting down when the battery door is opened may help protect the SD card from corruption - removing it while the power is on may not be safe.

I would also not want to force the extra startup delay on all users, CHDK already adds startup time - don't want to make it even slower.

Phil.

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Offline srsa_4c

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Re: Running CHDK with battery door open
« Reply #39 on: 25 / January / 2014, 16:38:19 »
Quote from: philmoz on 25 / January / 2014, 16:21:25
Works on my G1X (r49), I can open the door with the camera running.

It requires the startup delay to boot with the door open.
Thanks for confirming, can I commit that patch, or do the #defines need a different name?

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Is this something that should be compiled in by default or enabled with a build option only for people who really need it?
IMHO it doesn't need to be in the autobuilds. If somebody needs it, it can be enabled in their build.
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