Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

051r15

21
SX40 HS

« on: 01 / December / 2011, 23:01:08 »

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This is a repost from my thread I originally posted in the hotwire forum, which may have been placed in the wrong section.

Hello community! I'm new to the forum, and a new Canon owner as well (previously worked with xl1 for video production in the early 2000's). I absolutely love my SX40, even more so with RAW thanks to CHDK! I'm familiar with hacking and modding all my devices (writing to you on a hackintosh), and I'm very interested in the development and scripting of CHDK- though I'm a n00b as it stands now.

Here's my question: is it possible to get 60 fps in 1080 or 720 in movie mode? Or vary the framerate at all? The camera is capable of 120 fps @ VGA resolution 640x480, and the DIGIC V is fast.

Can this be done? Is anyone planning to implement this feature in an autobuild? If not, could a few experienced forum members point me in the right direction to start working on this capability myself? I promise to share any good results!

Oh, and thanks for existing! I support all who expand the off the shelf capabilities of expensive tech/gear to bring increased value and versatility to our tools. And I look forward to being an active participant in the community.

Thanks in advance!
-051r15

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reyalp

14079

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #1 on: 01 / December / 2011, 23:57:20 »

My reply http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=7146.msg76833#msg76833 in the other thread still applies.

As I said there, no one has figured out for certain whether this is possible, let alone how to do it. If you want this feature, then it's up to you do the reverse engineering.

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Don't forget what the H stands for.

Alejandro

20

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #2 on: 02 / December / 2011, 18:58:50 »

Have you tested the script for the Manual Video Controls in Movie mode?

Let's join forces here. I love my SX40 too.

I'm still trying to figure out what the values equivalents are for Tv, Av y Sv.
Do you understand this values?

works like a dream, but have no idea about the values equivalents.

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ELPH 300HS (IXUS 220)
EOS Rebel T3 (not T3i)
EOS 7D
SD770 IS
SX40 HS
SD1300 IS

051r15

21
SX40 HS

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #3 on: 02 / December / 2011, 20:24:23 »

Quote from: reyalp on 01 / December / 2011, 23:57:20

My reply http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=7146.msg76833#msg76833 in the other thread still applies.

As I said there, no one has figured out for certain whether this is possible, let alone how to do it. If you want this feature, then it's up to you do the reverse engineering.

Trust it's in good spirit. I'm a firm believer in "what the 'h' stands for"! And that's the spirit I bring to any such project. When they say it can't be done I say where is the most logical place to begin? Furiously studying how CHDK works and what we can know about Canon firmware as we speak.

Your first reply gave me a great starting place and once again it's appreciated.
As the first post was misplaced in the wrong forum I believe, I decided to repost in an more appropiate area.
I'm a big believer in second and third opinions, the more heads the better!

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waterwingz

12138

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #4 on: 02 / December / 2011, 20:47:12 »

Quote from: 051r15 on 02 / December / 2011, 20:24:23

Your first reply gave me a great starting place and once again it's appreciated.
As the first post was misplaced in the wrong forum I believe, I decided to repost in an more appropiate area.
I'm a big believer in second and third opinions, the more heads the better!

You'll find out that for the most part, the people who can help here monitor all threads via http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?action=recent and http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?action=unread;all;start=0 so cross posting / repeat posting gets noticed really quickly.

« Last Edit: 02 / December / 2011, 20:49:22 by waterwingz »

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051r15

21
SX40 HS

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #5 on: 02 / December / 2011, 21:09:58 »

Quote from: Alejandro on 02 / December / 2011, 18:58:50

Have you tested the script for the Manual Video Controls in Movie mode?

Let's join forces here. I love my SX40 too.

I'm still trying to figure out what the values equivalents are for Tv, Av y Sv.
Do you understand this values?

works like a dream, but have no idea about the values equivalents.

Great! I'm thinking since we can do VGA (though limited, no zoom/sound) @ 120 fps, then the processors have to be capable of pushing out at least 720 progressive @ 60fps. Other "bridge camera" competitors have this ability, such as the Panasonic FZ150, though the format is AVCHD.
Bridge camera! ha! I love this thing too, it's pushing out video and images at least as good as a T3 without the need for all the extra lenses.
The macro on it is superb imo and the optical telephoto is amazing, most other effects can be done in post or with lens filters these days, and we've got a hotshoe!

What would it take to make this camera better than say a DSLR like the T3? First off CHDK! It just otherwise wouldn't compare without RAW and full manual control over the equipment. External audio/video jack would be awesome, though we can hook it up to a tv or hd computer monitor. I usually record audio separately but an external mic would be more convenient all around I think. It makes me wonder, if we can have a usb based remote shutter can we also have usb/hdmi based external audio??

I think if we could, we've got a better system going than many entry level DSLRs.

I have tested the movie script a bit by upping the quality/bitrate, haven't quite figured out Av/Tv or full M yet, but I understand that they exist.

So, where do we start partner? This is the first Canon I've owned personally and I'm still trying to get my head around the programming of it.
My instincts though tell me to examine the part of the firmware that tells something like a 7D to shoot @ 720 60fps, and compare that with the SX40 firmware that tells it to shoot at 30fps. Then to see how we could expand the functionality through CHDK.

Both cameras use DRYos, so I'm thinking it shouldn't be a herculean task to figure this out. This would be my avenue. So far though, I've got plenty of studying and following up leads to do!

What do you think?

« Last Edit: 03 / December / 2011, 06:03:06 by 051r15 »

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Alejandro

20

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #6 on: 02 / December / 2011, 22:31:01 »

this is what i think.
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=7192.msg77210#msg77210

i am out of this place.

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ELPH 300HS (IXUS 220)
EOS Rebel T3 (not T3i)
EOS 7D
SD770 IS
SX40 HS
SD1300 IS

reyalp

14079

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #7 on: 02 / December / 2011, 22:40:18 »

Quote from: 051r15 on 02 / December / 2011, 21:09:58

Great! I'm thinking since we can do VGA (though limited, no zoom/sound) @ 120 fps, then the processors have to be capable of pushing out at least 720 progressive @ 60fps.

This does not follow:
640x480x120 = ~36.9 mp/sec
1280x720x60 = ~55.3 mp/sec
A better argument would be that it can do 1080p @ 24 FPS:
1920x1080x24 = ~49.8 mp/sec

OTOH the fact that they don't offer 1080p@30 could mean that 24 is close to the limit, or perhaps that they just want to nudge people who want 30 over to their DSLRs.

Quote

My instincts though tell me to examine the part of the firmware that tells something like a 7D to shoot @ 720 60fps, and compare that with the SX40 firmware that tells it to shoot at 30fps. Then to see how we could expand the functionality through CHDK.

Both cameras use DRYos, so I'm thinking it shouldn't be a herculean task to figure this out.

This is probably not a productive approach. They use the same OS and a similar processor, but the camera software (the "application" that runs on top of DryOS and does all the camera related stuff) appear to be completely separate lineages between the P&S and DSLRs. DryOS is just an OS, it's used for cameras and printers and who knows what else.

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Don't forget what the H stands for.

051r15

21
SX40 HS

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #8 on: 03 / December / 2011, 02:57:07 »

Quote from: reyalp on 02 / December / 2011, 22:40:18

This does not follow:
640x480x120 = ~36.9 mp/sec
1280x720x60 = ~55.3 mp/sec
A better argument would be that it can do 1080p @ 24 FPS:
1920x1080x24 = ~49.8 mp/sec

OTOH the fact that they don't offer 1080p@30 could mean that 24 is close to the limit, or perhaps that they just want to nudge people who want 30 over to their DSLRs.

Well of course they want to nudge us into spending 100's to 1000's of more $'s to upgrade your software, lol that's why we have CHDK (and hackintosh's too

.

How did you calculate those bitrates? How can we discover the maximum possible? Couldn't we turn down quality or bitrate in video mode to achieve 1080p 60fps @ 49.8 mp/sec - what does "mp" stand for btw?

If cameras of lesser quality (Panasonic's and Sony's) with similar specs to an SX40 can handle this why not ours?

Although it's a different code, Magiclantern has varied fps on Canon's, although not drastically ("true" 29.97 instead of 30 fps for example) so we do know that we can vary it for a fact in the EOS line at least, by how much remains to be seen though.

By thinking outside of limitations we transcend them, there is no such thing as can't. I edit video on FCP, but couldn't afford a Mac Pro at the time. I was told by tons of people it wasn't possible, save my money, stop dreaming, you need a Phd in computer science etc etc... Eight months later, working closely with a passionate community of like minded people the first hackintoshs' were born! Not to mention I came up with the first work around to get FCP 6+7 installed and working on totally unsupported hardware (we're talking as little as 64mb vram).

So, that's why I'm so sure we can accomplish this if we put our heads together and start working on it rather than back and forthing on "can it be done?". We've all got something to bring to the table. I'm completely new to CHDK so couldn't yet tell you how to code this or make a build (working on it). Apparently though, I bring a fresh perspective and "we can push the boundaries" attitude that someone who has been working on the same type of code for a while may be missing.
Maybe we can use another scripting language as a way to support this feature. ML is using C and Perl apparently, on DRYos Canon hardware, same as we've got (SX40 has a CMOS sensor).

Just saying of course the software will be crippled on otherwise good hardware, this is how companies turn a profit. The difference between manufacturing an SX40 and T3i is probably $100 dollars or less, much like a beats audio HP and Macbook pro, although the price difference is enormous. The difference lies in the software.

I have no hostility nor am I trying to anger people by asking to do the impossible, the fact is we don't know if we can or not (I think we can), apparently from what I've seen in the forums we know it's complicated and most of the dev's never really pursued it, which makes sense as CHDK is mainly about expanding photographic capabilities as opposed to say Magic lantern which was developed to enhance video. They have incorporated increased photographic considerations into their project, perhaps we can do the same here for video.

This thread can be the basis for such a project. Give me a week or two to learn uBasic and LUA a bit, and I'll be here with all my findings. Until then, I'm loving RAW! If CHDK did not exist I probably would not have gotten this exceptional camera whose manufacturer wanted me to pay way more for capabilities the camera inherently possessed.

Thank you to the inventor and community of innovators who made this possible, much much love!

« Last Edit: 03 / December / 2011, 03:02:22 by 051r15 »

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051r15

21
SX40 HS

Re: Increasing fps in movie mode SX40 HS

« Reply #9 on: 03 / December / 2011, 03:22:12 »

Quote from: Alejandro on 02 / December / 2011, 22:31:01

this is what i think.
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php?topic=7192.msg77210#msg77210

i am out of this place.

Sorry to have lost any insight you may have brought to the table. Perhaps any difference's could be put aside for the benefit of all. This camera is so new there isn't a huge group of people using it yet and therefore it's lacking user/community driven support that some models have built up over time. It's DIGIC V baby! New technology and we're some of the first to use it. The DSLR's with the new DIGICs will be BEASTS. Already I can't think of this as a p+s, the quality is too good, and much better than the Panasonic which I -very briefly- considered.

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