if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it? - General Discussion and Assistance - CHDK Forum
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if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?

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Offline powershooter

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if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« on: 24 / March / 2012, 22:13:19 »
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I relay do enjoy using chdk and I think alot of features are fun to use and also make it easier to use the camera as a photo tool. For example with the hdr script it brackets exposures for me so that way I don't have to use the exposure dial and there is no slight movement which means I don't have to use auto align and I end up with sharper pictures and it doesn't take as long to process. Now because alot of the features are great for marking purposes such as dng raw files I don't understand why canon just doesn't have all their cameras support chdk like features out of the box. Or wait better yet what if canon made the firmware open source (even if it was just for newer cameras it would still be good if canon would do that) just think about instead of posting of chdk we would be posting on CFEP (canon firmware enhancing project) and we would not have to bother hacking the cameras and the extra features that we want would now be possible as we have access to the more powerful dsp (better than the slow arm thing) even if that does not happen I still can not understand why canon just doesn't go head and add stuff such as ubasic scripts and a build in intervolmenter the hardware is full capable of it so why doesn't canon add it.
« Last Edit: 25 / March / 2012, 00:17:24 by powershooter »
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #1 on: 24 / March / 2012, 23:33:56 »
Quote from: powershooter on 24 / March / 2012, 22:13:19
I relay do enjoy using chdk and I think alot of features are fun to use and also make it easier to use the camera as a photo tool for example with the hdr script it brackets for me so that way I don't have to use the exposure dial and there is no slight movement which means I don't have to use auto align and I end up with sharper pictures and it doesn't take as long to process. Now I wonder alot of the features are great for marking purposes such as dng raw files so I don't understand why canon just doesn't have all their cameras support chdk like features out of the box or better yet make the firmware open source (even if it was just for newer cameras it would still be good if canon would do that) just think about instead of posting of chdk we would be posting on CFEP (canon firmware enhancing project) and we would not have to bother hacking the cameras and the extra features that we want would now be possible as we have access to the more powerful dsp (better than the slow arm thing) even if that does not happen I still can not understand why canon just doesn't go head and add stuff such as ubasic scripts and a build in intervolmenter the hardware is full capable of it so why doesn't canon add it.
Canon has a marketing department that studies what people will buy, what is important to them and therefore what is worth supporting.  If they thought these features would get them 10% more sales they would be available immediately.   Obviously they don't think that and so they are not.

Congratulation on the 2012 award for the two longest "run on" sentences on the forum so far this year by the way  :)

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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline powershooter

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #2 on: 25 / March / 2012, 00:38:41 »
Ok I fixed it abit but that comment about the run on did make me laugh.... alot but even if it does not make 10% more people buy it I think it could have maybe a ~5% impact raw shooting (this is of course the addition time to add these features does not raise the price of the camera) if it does cost alot to add they could always make the firmware open source and maybe if they do add it it would bring the camera price up and not helps sales take this for example
for example http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gr/gr_digital4/ (it sells for 600 dollars)
the sensor is not mush bigger than my powershot and it has a 28mm f1.9 lens (no zoom) but because of a good design and firmware it makes worth 600 dollars but they on the other hand could have made it a basic point and shoot with the same sensor and lens and spent less time on the firmware and be able to sell it for alot less but because they did not have to hire a good programmer but canon could sell there powershots for the same price with the same features but have the firmware open source so we could add them for free.
« Last Edit: 25 / March / 2012, 00:46:41 by powershooter »
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #3 on: 25 / March / 2012, 09:43:07 »
Quote from: powershooter on 25 / March / 2012, 00:38:41
Ok I fixed it abit but that comment about the run on did make me laugh.... alot but even if it does not make 10% more people buy it I think it could have maybe a ~5% impact raw shooting (this is of course the addition time to add these features does not raise the price of the camera) if it does cost alot to add they could always make the firmware open source and maybe if they do add it it would bring the camera price up and not helps sales take this for example
for example http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gr/gr_digital4/ (it sells for 600 dollars)
the sensor is not mush bigger than my powershot and it has a 28mm f1.9 lens (no zoom) but because of a good design and firmware it makes worth 600 dollars but they on the other hand could have made it a basic point and shoot with the same sensor and lens and spent less time on the firmware and be able to sell it for alot less but because they did not have to hire a good programmer but canon could sell there powershots for the same price with the same features but have the firmware open source so we could add them for free.
A new record !

The part of that link that talks about "function-enhancing firmware" is interesting.  I image Canon will watch and see how that goes over.   http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gr/gr_digital4/firmware.html
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Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16
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Offline powershooter

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #4 on: 25 / March / 2012, 18:09:26 »
It went over well by the way on dpreview there are alot of good comments
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02/23/Ricoh-GRD-IV-firmware
and it would make the most since to just make the the firmware open source for pretty much any camera because everyone has different needs. I personally wish I had an extra 600 dollars for the ricoh.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #5 on: 25 / March / 2012, 19:05:39 »
Quote from: powershooter on 25 / March / 2012, 18:09:26
and it would make the most since to just make the the firmware open source for pretty much any camera because everyone has different needs.
Making a successful open source / commercial collaboration is actually quite difficult. It's even worse if you are starting with a commercial code base that already has various existing IP encumbrances.

I think a camera side SDK could be a compelling feature, but it would involve a very substantial amount of effort and risk for the company doing it. The idea that Canon could just open source their existing firmware without any significant cost is very naive.
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Offline powershooter

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #6 on: 25 / March / 2012, 20:09:10 »
It does not have to be a sourceforge/ chdk style collaboration that our changes make it into the official release it could be for personal use and maybe have a community similar to what we have right now and also I thought that canon made the firmware/hardware themselves so as far as I am aware there is no existing IP encumbrances.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #7 on: 25 / March / 2012, 22:35:40 »
Quote from: powershooter on 25 / March / 2012, 20:09:10
It does not have to be a sourceforge/ chdk style collaboration that our changes make it into the official release it could be for personal use and maybe have a community similar to what we have right now
Saying it's for personal use doesn't solve anything. For this to be worthwhile to Canon, the end result has to be more cameras sold. It's extremely unlikely an unsupported code dump would accomplish this. Quite a few companies have tried that in various forms, and generally hasn't ended up well for them.
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I thought that canon made the firmware/hardware themselves so as far as I am aware there is no existing IP encumbrances.
We know for a fact they use H264 and exFAT, at a minimum. I would be very surprised if there wasn't more.

In reality, just going through a large code base and determining whether there are any issues would cost a bunch of money, and there's no way any competent legal department would let it out the door without that.

Even if there's no third party IP problems, they'd still have to worry about their own IP, and what if anything they want to keep secret. Plus they would need to examine liability and regulatory issues.

Honestly, if a company wanted to go this way, they'd probably be better off starting with an existing open platform and just adding some SDKs and drivers for their specific hardware. Writing some Digic drivers for Linux could easily be less work than open-sourcing their entire existing platform.

Sony makes a bunch of Linux based cameras, but the firmware is locked down, so you can't actually do anything interesting even though you can download the source. See http://www.sony.net/Products/Linux/DI/category01.html
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Offline powershooter

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Re: if powershots support chdk features why don't they just come with it?
« Reply #8 on: 25 / March / 2012, 23:45:40 »
I thought h264 was open and same with fat but anyways I did not think of the things you guys mentioned and I agree I thought it would be similar than it relay is.
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