CHDK UI version 2.0 ? - page 47 - General Discussion and Assistance - CHDK Forum  
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CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

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Offline msl

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #460 on: 01 / November / 2012, 18:00:25 »
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Quote from: tsvstar on 01 / November / 2012, 15:44:17
Actually I do not understand why to revert whole feature (in philmoz-uitest) because only one issue...
Me too not. The simple mode is the right way!

The incompatibility of the configuration I do not see as a big problem, new version - new configuration. I think the off state and save override values via popup window is not the best solution. But is it a solution. Maybe the popup window has potential for more or other functions.

Another thing is the subject distance issue. This is really a problem.

msl
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Offline philmoz

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #461 on: 01 / November / 2012, 18:15:22 »
Quote from: msl on 01 / November / 2012, 18:00:25
Quote from: tsvstar on 01 / November / 2012, 15:44:17
Actually I do not understand why to revert whole feature (in philmoz-uitest) because only one issue...
Me too not. The simple mode is the right way!

I disagree. The 'simple' mode takes more button presses to turn an override off, and the mechanism to do this is hidden and not easily discovered by new users. Why are we trying to dumb down the system in the first place - CHDK is for power users, removing features is a bad idea. I'm not saying the override UI can't be improved; but I don't think this 'simple' mode is the right solution.

Quote
The incompatibility of the configuration I do not see as a big problem, new version - new configuration.

Again I don't agree. Changing the config file is a pain since there's no method of converting between them. Only a major change to the underlying system should trigger a new config file version. With a bit more thought this rework of the overrides UI could be done without breaking compatibility (or functionality).

Phil.
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Offline outslider

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #462 on: 01 / November / 2012, 18:54:19 »
I use only simple mode and have no significant problems. I'm sure it is much easier to use and set values, than with system we have in trunk. However, I understand that somebody has oposite feel. So for me the best way would be to give the user a choice which system he want to use.

Because of config file problems I think that new UI that is available in tsvstar-uitests should stay only in this branch for now until ALL issues with the new system will be solved. This should not be pushed to the trunk before the system become relatively stable. Probably before that the current trunk code would be enough stable to become next stable release and tsvstar-uitests could become new trunk. IHMO :)
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #463 on: 01 / November / 2012, 18:57:37 »
Quote from: philmoz on 01 / November / 2012, 18:15:22
Why are we trying to dumb down the system in the first place - CHDK is for power users

I certainly hope so because I am relying on that.

Quite simply, I am working on a 'dumbed-down' SDM version secure in the knowledge that if users complain about missing features they can always use CHDK.

It is also far less work for me to maintain.

For example, if I omit edge overlay, users can use CHDK ... I know I will.

It is just another DISKBOOT.BIN file.

If both CHDK and SDM are dumbed down some features will disappear forever.

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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #464 on: 01 / November / 2012, 19:07:14 »
Quote from: Microfunguy on 01 / November / 2012, 18:57:37
It is just another DISKBOOT.BIN file.
.... plus a sub-directory of flt modules.
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #465 on: 01 / November / 2012, 19:25:34 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 01 / November / 2012, 19:07:14
.... plus a sub-directory of flt modules.

Hmmm .. I could manage that at a push.

However, it is unlikely to be necessary, my needs are very simple.
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Offline reyalp

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #466 on: 01 / November / 2012, 22:41:00 »
Quote from: philmoz on 01 / November / 2012, 18:15:22
I disagree. The 'simple' mode takes more button presses to turn an override off, and the mechanism to do this is hidden and not easily discovered by new users.
I agree with this. The whole point of the "UI 2.0" was to make CHDK easier to use. The second part especially goes in the opposite direction.
Quote from: outslider on 01 / November / 2012, 18:54:19
So for me the best way would be to give the user a choice which system he want to use.
I disagree with this. Adding multiple ways of doing thing bloats the code and makes it harder to maintain. A consistent design is better than throwing in every possible variation, even if it doesn't please everyone.
Quote
Because of config file problems I think that new UI that is available in tsvstar-uitests should stay only in this branch for now until ALL issues with the new system will be solved.

In real software, there's no such thing as solving all the issues ;) The trunk exists specifically so problems can be found before they affect the version recommended for regular users.
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Offline msl

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #467 on: 02 / November / 2012, 06:17:25 »
Quote from: reyalp on 01 / November / 2012, 22:41:00
Quote from: philmoz on 01 / November / 2012, 18:15:22
I disagree. The 'simple' mode takes more button presses to turn an override off, and the mechanism to do this is hidden and not easily discovered by new users.
I agree with this. The whole point of the "UI 2.0" was to make CHDK easier to use. The second part especially goes in the opposite direction.

I see it a little bit different.

E.g. Tv override:
The old system needs three! menu entries for Tv overrides. You must choose between Ev steps or seconds. Is this really easy? Do we really need in addition to the APEX system yet another exposure time system?

The simple system needs one menu entry + popup window. With the popup window the (new) CHDK user get a description, what he can do. That call I easy to use.


Of course, new functions should not destroy the general functionality - see subject distance override. But the configuration file problem is more marginally. In the history of CHDK we had often incompatible config files.

msl
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Offline philmoz

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #468 on: 02 / November / 2012, 07:04:51 »
Quote from: msl on 02 / November / 2012, 06:17:25
Quote from: reyalp on 01 / November / 2012, 22:41:00
Quote from: philmoz on 01 / November / 2012, 18:15:22
I disagree. The 'simple' mode takes more button presses to turn an override off, and the mechanism to do this is hidden and not easily discovered by new users.
I agree with this. The whole point of the "UI 2.0" was to make CHDK easier to use. The second part especially goes in the opposite direction.

E.g. Tv override:
The old system needs three! menu entries for Tv overrides. You must choose between Ev steps or seconds. Is this really easy? Do we really need in addition to the APEX system yet another exposure time system?


The original system had three menu entries to give you flexibility to choose a shutter speed.
The new system loses that and you are stuck with the hard wired shutter speeds.

Try to do any of these with the new Tv override system (all are possible with the original system):
- a 1/70th second exposure
- a 4.5 second exposure
- a 15 minute exposure
- a 30 minute exposure
- a 1 hour exposure

The last one caught me out recently when I was trying to do a long night exposure with the G1X - the 'simple' system limited me to 34 minutes max.
This is when I realised we had gone backwards.

The UI could probably be improved (e.g. allow long exposure values to specified as HH:MM:SS).
However I still think the 'simple' menu system is the wrong approach.

Phil.
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CHDK ports:
  sx30is (1.00c, 1.00h, 1.00l, 1.00n & 1.00p)
  g12 (1.00c, 1.00e, 1.00f & 1.00g)
  sx130is (1.01d & 1.01f)
  ixus310hs (1.00a & 1.01a)
  sx40hs (1.00d, 1.00g & 1.00i)
  g1x (1.00e, 1.00f & 1.00g)
  g5x (1.00c, 1.01a, 1.01b)
  g7x2 (1.01a, 1.01b, 1.10b)
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Offline dvip

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Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?
« Reply #469 on: 02 / November / 2012, 10:58:55 »
I think the "simple" menu should be an improved user menu with some script interface added if needed.
The rest should stay the same for power users and should be kept just like the original system.
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