CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

waterwingz

12140

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #510 on: 06 / March / 2013, 16:36:30 »

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Quote from: andrewhazelden on 06 / March / 2013, 16:19:00

I was asked a question about CHDK exposure control by an aerial photography user with a SX260HS camera. The user indicated the "classic" CHDK Value Factor based shutter speed override controls weren't visible in the unstable CHDK 1.2.0 builds. Supposedly there is a new option called "Short Exp. Value" that I know very little about.

The new option really just lets you set the shutter speed in increments of 0.00001 seconds rather than the old way, which used a fractional representation. You can still use the old method by setting the Override Tv type menu item to Ev Step.

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From what I have gleaned online it looks like the "Short Exposure" mode is the best one for capturing images with a high shutter speed. The "Short Exposure" mode provides timing precision between a 0 to 9 second exposure duration.

I don't know that its really a question of "best" - its more of a user preference which way to do it.

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I don't know the exact step values the CHDK user interface allows so I was wondering if you could let me know the step values for the short and long exposure "Override Tv type ->" field.

AFAIK, if you use the ShrtExp option then you can set the shutter speed to any arbitrary value and the camera will use that for the shutter speed ( e.g. 0.00070 seconds). With the Ev Step option you get the discrete steps you see when you scroll thought the Ev Step Values.

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Ported : A1200 SD940 G10 Powershot N G16

philmoz

3450

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #511 on: 06 / March / 2013, 16:49:06 »

Quote from: andrewhazelden on 06 / March / 2013, 16:19:00

Quote from: philmoz on 03 / November / 2012, 05:09:08
Latest version (2245) in philmoz-uitest has two significant changes.
1. Added a new UI for the Tv (shutter speed) override for review.
...

Hi Waterwingz and Philmoz.

I was hoping you could clarify a CHDK question I have been researching.

I was asked a question about CHDK exposure control by an aerial photography user with a SX260HS camera. The user indicated the "classic" CHDK Value Factor based shutter speed override controls weren't visible in the unstable CHDK 1.2.0 builds. Supposedly there is a new option called "Short Exp. Value" that I know very little about.

I am interested in writing a blog/Wiki post explaining how the new system works and I was hoping you could clarify a few facts for accuracy. I searched online for any comments about the new CHDK camera controls and compared the english.lng file from the CHDK 1.10 and 1.2.0 builds.

In the SX260HS CHDK stable 1.1 firmware there are controls for:
244 " Value Factor"

I noticed the new the SX260HS CHDK unstable 1.2.0 build user has the options for:
240 " Ev Step Value"
241 " Long Exp. Value"
244 " Short Exp. Value"

From what I have gleaned online it looks like the "Short Exposure" mode is the best one for capturing images with a high shutter speed. The "Short Exposure" mode provides timing precision between a 0 to 9 second exposure duration.

According to the Canon SX260 HS user guide [url=http://bit.ly/CanonSX260_PDF]http://bit.ly/CanonSX260_PDF[/url] on page 36 the available TV mode "high speed" shutter values are: 1/200, 1/250, 1/320, 1/400, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000, 1/1250, 1/1600, 1/2000, 1/2500, 1/3200

If a model airplane wanted to capture a fast image with a 1/1250th of a second shutter speed the time in seconds would equal 0.0008 seconds.

I don't know the exact step values the CHDK user interface allows so I was wondering if you could let me know the step values for the short and long exposure "Override Tv type ->" field.

Thanks,
Andrew

Ev Step Value = Fixed values from 1/100,000 to 2048 seconds (approx. 1/3 stop intervals)
Long Exp Value = Any value from 0 - 1:59:59 in steps of 1 seconds, entered as H:MM:SS
Short Exp Value = Any value from 0.00000 - 1.00000 seconds in steps of 0.00001 seconds

This interface just lets you enter the override value in a more intuitive manner than the old 'value factor' method.

Phil.

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CHDK ports:
sx30is (1.00c, 1.00h, 1.00l, 1.00n & 1.00p)
g12 (1.00c, 1.00e, 1.00f & 1.00g)
sx130is (1.01d & 1.01f)
ixus310hs (1.00a & 1.01a)
sx40hs (1.00d, 1.00g & 1.00i)
g1x (1.00e, 1.00f & 1.00g)
g5x (1.00c, 1.01a, 1.01b)
g7x2 (1.01a, 1.01b, 1.10b)

andrewhazelden

93

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #512 on: 09 / March / 2013, 13:24:00 »

Thanks for the detailed responses on the new CHDK shutter speed controls!

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Canon SD780IS

waterwingz

12140

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ? - time for new name for CHDK versions ?

« Reply #513 on: 27 / March / 2013, 23:41:02 »

I've been looking at documentation changes (i.e. user manuals) to support the current dev / unstable / 1.2.0 / main trunk version of CHDK.

But as the previous sentence just illustrated, what we are calling things is becoming something of a problem. Exactly what revision/version of CHDK are we talking about?

So I'm thinking that we might really need a simpler higher level naming scheme. Something like this :

CHDK Generation Zero : Gen0 : the old days of different builds : allbest,grand,juiciphox,etc CHDK Generation One : Gen1 : the first unified build - circa 2009 ( a.k.a. 1.0.0 <- archived) CHDK Generation Two : Gen2 : the next unified build ( a.k.a. 1.1.0 <- today's stable) CHDK Generation Three : Gen3 : the one after that ( a.k.a. 1.2.0 <- today's unstable) CHDK Gen4 : etc etc etc
The Gen level gets bumped when the version minor number gets changed. Our use of a three level version number is a bit of an artifice ... we don't actually use the minor numbers to designate major & minor revisions so the S/N ration there is really low. Build numbers are used instead.

I know this sounds more like marketing speak that hacker talk but stuff like this can make a big difference in our communications and new user introductions. And once you start using Gen0 or Gen3 in normal conversation, people will quickly learn what you are talking about.

For example, I could tell a new user that the current user manual refers mostly to Gen1 CHDK, they have Gen2 from the download, but they really should be using Gen3 to get the latest features. Which is much better than telling them the current manual is from the "archived old version we don't use anymore" vs the "stable version we don't update except for bug fixes or when we decide its okay to break the no update rule" vs the "version with all the cool new stuff that everyone really wants that actually runs really well and sometimes better than previous versions but we call it unstable to maintain its geek cred ...". You get the idea.

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Ported : A1200 SD940 G10 Powershot N G16

srsa_4c

4451

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #514 on: 31 / March / 2013, 11:53:22 »

Quote from: waterwingz on 27 / March / 2013, 23:41:02

But as the previous sentence just illustrated, what we are calling things is becoming something of a problem. Exactly what revision/version of CHDK are we talking about?

So I'm thinking that we might really need a simpler higher level naming scheme.

Forgot to say that this (short names) isn't a bad idea. Since it's something new, it will need an explanation page on wikia.

edit (I don't like micro-posts)
An additional page to update will be http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Features

« Last Edit: 31 / March / 2013, 12:34:10 by srsa_4c »

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waterwingz

12140

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #515 on: 31 / March / 2013, 12:23:37 »

Quote from: srsa_4c on 31 / March / 2013, 11:53:22

Quote from: waterwingz on 27 / March / 2013, 23:41:02
But as the previous sentence just illustrated, what we are calling things is becoming something of a problem. Exactly what revision/version of CHDK are we talking about?

So I'm thinking that we might really need a simpler higher level naming scheme.
Forgot to say that this (short names) isn't a bad idea. Since it's something new, it will need an explanation page on wikia.

As there was not much of a response to this post (no surprise there) I was going to sit on it for a while.

What I was thinking about is an update to reyalp's release strategy page, an addition to the FAQ, and then a scan through the various manuals & guides designating which version(s) they support. Might make sense for hacki to update the autobuild server comments too.

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Ported : A1200 SD940 G10 Powershot N G16

reyalp

14114

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #516 on: 31 / March / 2013, 13:31:15 »

Honestly I don't see how Gen* helps over 1.1, 1.2 etc. For the development cycle, just use current stable and current unstable or something like that.

My experience with distros that name their releases is that you end up seeing references to the name and number in different places and have to google to find out which corresponds to which. I recognize this isn't exactly what waterwingz is proposing, but I don't see adding more labels into the mix reducing confusion.

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waterwingz

12140

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #517 on: 31 / March / 2013, 13:39:51 »

Quote from: reyalp on 31 / March / 2013, 13:31:15

Honestly I don't see how Gen* helps over 1.1, 1.2 etc. For the development cycle, just use current stable and current unstable or something like that.

Its not a developer issues - its an end user issue. The terms current and stable are relative - if and when there is a 1.3.0 then their meaning changes.

There are maybe 20 people in the world ( 30?) that could tell you the difference between 1.0.0 and 1.1.0 and 1.2.0. People just don't remember numbers like that unless they work with them all the time.

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My experience with distros that name their releases is that you end up seeing references to the name and number in different places and have to google to find out which corresponds to which. I recognize this isn't exactly what waterwingz is proposing, but I don't see adding more labels into the mix reducing confusion.

Well, if a quick google search gets you the info you need, that's not too bad. IMHO a genx designation is high level enough to group feature sets and UI implementation - which is what we will need to update the current docs.

But that's just my opinion - I'm not going to try and force it if nobody else agrees.

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Ported : A1200 SD940 G10 Powershot N G16

reyalp

14114

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #518 on: 31 / March / 2013, 13:48:08 »

Quote from: waterwingz on 31 / March / 2013, 13:39:51

The terms current and stable are relative - if and when there is a 1.3.0 then their meaning changes.

Sure, but whether you refer to Gen3 or 1.2 that doesn't change. If you want to refer to a feature set, it's version x.y, if you want to refer to the development phase, it's unstable or stable.

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There are maybe 20 people in the world ( 30?) that could tell you the difference between 1.0.0 and 1.1.0 and 1.2.0. People just don't remember numbers like that unless they work with them all the time.

I'm unconvinced that some made up, unique to CHDK naming convention is more understandable to "normal" users than 1.1, 1.2 etc. Software version numbers are a pretty regular feature of software. Release names are pretty common too, but they don't follow any sort of global pattern.

If I were going to change something, I'd drop the 1.

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waterwingz

12140

Re: CHDK UI version 2.0 ?

« Reply #519 on: 31 / March / 2013, 13:52:23 »

Quote from: reyalp on 31 / March / 2013, 13:48:08

If I were going to change something, I'd drop the 1.

That would do it too

Especially as the 0 never changes either.

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Ported : A1200 SD940 G10 Powershot N G16