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CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis

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Offline SticK

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #110 on: 10 / September / 2012, 09:37:43 »
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 :D Thanks for bringing mine to the forefront too ... but ... I did admit to my typos & dropped words a while back and my problems just don't seem to go away.  His typos do manage to get past my English compiler no problem, but this syntax error caused it to crash ... reyalp's not alone (in this case it is a verb contraction, not possessive case - that's why Spanish is so easy).

It's my little contribution to preserve the English language with the hope that other (English native) folks will interest themselves in this thread and pick up lua and extra English at the same time, like my own kids!

Quote "Anyway, before you get too engrossed with this project, what makes you think you can remove the CCD and solve the electronic and software problems ?"

I did it on an S50 many years ago.  The job is not for the faint-of-heart.  The S90 will be far more difficult because the lens assembly also contains an image stabilizer, a real iris and probably a mechanical shutter.  There are feedback signals to the core that report lens assembly electromechanical condition and those have to be circumvented and/or tricked.  You have to build a tiny oscilloscope probe, look for the signals, try to characterize the timing and then cut whatever traces are needed and fake the feedback signals with piggy-back circuits.  The probability of success is not very high.  But if successful, the main objective is to use the CCD in primary focal plane configuration and install it with a TEC in a sealed enclosure. 

If the S90&CHDK++ pass the next level which is integration testing this week sometime, I would really like to interest reyalp (& team I hope) in this part of the project.  The ideal and elegant solution would be for a user to simply disconnect the lens assembly flat cables and have CHDK fake its presence.  That would give people in amateur astronomy (more common // not my case) unprecedented access to these fantastic CCDs (Eng. the archaic form used to be CCD's for plural acronyms) and analog signal processors.
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #111 on: 10 / September / 2012, 10:23:42 »
Quote from: SticK on 10 / September / 2012, 09:37:43
It's my little contribution to preserve the English language with the hope that other (English native) folks will interest themselves in this thread and pick up lua and extra English at the same time, like my own kids!

American rather than proper English.   :)

In proper English we do not use the horrible 'gotten' , 'my bad', 'shot to death' and the grotesque 'thru' .


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The job is not for the faint-of-heart.
 The S90 will be far more difficult

Just slightly.
If you succeed you should be awarded a medal.

I will certainly be interested.

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The probability of success is not very high.

Zero ?

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But if successful, the main objective is to use the CCD in primary focal plane configuration and install it with a TEC in a sealed enclosure.

Sounds like astronomical spectroscopy.


David
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #112 on: 10 / September / 2012, 10:52:14 »
Quote from: Microfunguy on 10 / September / 2012, 10:23:42
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The probability of success is not very high.
Zero ?

At the risk of introducing Canadian English to this discussion (one of the few countries to still spell colour correctly),  I was wondering about SticK's original description of his proposed mechanical changes.  He used the expression "drill out the lens".   While I'm pretty sure you would not actually want to try to drill out the glass (?),  would it be possible to disassemble the lens assembly,  remove the glass,  insert appropriate spacers  and reassemble ?  Not for the faint of heart but surely easier than trying to trick the camera electronics ?
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Offline SticK

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #113 on: 10 / September / 2012, 11:23:45 »
@microfunguy
Quote "'my bad'"

I always felt this may have originally come from "Am I bad" (statement form, not question) with the rhetorical roots of something like "I admit to inexcusable ignorance," and when said quickly sounds like "my bad."

Quote "Zero?"

Close to it // I am certainly hoping for not zero.  There are second-rate solutions that are possible, but those may impose thermo-mechanical and mounting constraints.

Quote "Sounds like astronomical spectroscopy. "

Nope // but it is possible to do if you work out the diffraction grating solution and associated optics (curved projection mirror) & mechanics.   However, I would not recommend an imaging CCD in this case because it would be an overkill and not worth the effort in my opinion.  You're better off with an easier and better solution: coupling a commercial spectrometer directly to your telescope.

@waterwingz
Quote "would it be possible to disassemble the lens assembly,  remove the glass,  insert appropriate spacers  and reassemble ?"

Yes this is one of the 2nd-rate solutions.  The problem is that it leaves the housing in place which limits mounting possibilities and the construction of a thermal cavity.  One other solution is to remove the CCD and leave the lens in place.  That depends on the mechanical architecture of each individual camera.  Then to optically access the imaging surface, you have to rotate the sensor so it faces backwards.  Because you cannot extend the ribbon cable (electrical signal limitations more than mechanical) there is little space left to put thermal components, in addition to having to leave the LCD screen available for most user applications.  On the S90 it is possible to do, but rotating the LCD out of the way at leat to 90 deg would be required (or rotated out to 180 deg, facing forward) or better, disconnecting it.  I don't know what affect that could have on error reporting.  LCD rotation would affect mounting possibilities too.  For example in my case I have a very tight space the hardware solution has to go into, so the LCD cannot be rotated and the CCD has to face forward.  As reyalp put it nicely .. terra incognita ...  all these options have to be thoroughly explored.  You can see my thrust ... if you guys can figure out how to handle the error tables to override lens error reporting (a super-hack of sorts), that would be a really elegant generic solution.
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #114 on: 10 / September / 2012, 11:26:47 »
Quote from: waterwingz on 10 / September / 2012, 10:52:14
would it be possible to disassemble the lens assembly,  remove the glass,  insert appropriate spacers  and reassemble ?  Not for the faint of heart but surely easier than trying to trick the camera electronics ?

Good idea and risk free because you can try it without disassembling the camera :-

Ebay # 170819838962
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #115 on: 10 / September / 2012, 11:29:10 »
Quote from: SticK on 10 / September / 2012, 11:23:45
if you guys can figure out how to handle the error tables to override lens error reporting (a super-hack of sorts), that would be a really elegant generic solution.

There are references to that somewhere.

I don't have the energy to do a Forum search, you can do that.
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Offline waterwingz

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #116 on: 10 / September / 2012, 11:51:07 »
Quote from: SticK on 10 / September / 2012, 11:23:45
Then to optically access the imaging surface, you have to rotate the sensor so it faces backwards. 
Or at least flip it up 90 degrees (out through the back of the camera.  Nothing says you have to keep the center on the same axis as the lens anymore and the connector & thermal cavity issues might be easier to handle that way ?  It depends on the camera of coarse.

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in addition to having to leave the LCD screen available for most user applications.
Running chdkptp means you don't need the LCD anymore - you can do all that remotely.

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You can see my thrust ... if you guys can figure out how to handle the error tables to override lens error reporting (a super-hack of sorts), that would be a really elegant generic solution.
Yes,  it would.  Good luck.
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Offline SticK

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #117 on: 10 / September / 2012, 12:06:00 »
Quote "Running chdkptp means you don't need the LCD anymore - you can do all that remotely."

As I mentioned, we don't know yet whether disconnecting the LCD will report an error.  Unlike the SX110 of which I have two, I have only one S90 for now so I want trek very gingerly and methodically leaving a PUP with disconnections as the last resort.  In my experience I have found leaving the LCD is helpful for computer and communications problems // it is somewhat of a lifeline.

Quote " It depends on the camera of coarse."

Yes, that is what I said too.  There are many variations of 2nd rate solutions possible.

Quote "I don't have the energy to do a Forum search, you can do that."

No need // reyalp already answered my question long ago.


« Last Edit: 10 / September / 2012, 12:09:59 by SticK »
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Offline SticK

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #118 on: 10 / September / 2012, 12:18:44 »
A minor gremlin flag (SX110)

Re: Disable LCD Off Always is ignored when battery indicator is set to voltage and temp is set to optics.

I noticed this while using the shoot-transfer command.  Leaving the camera unattended for a few minutes,  powers OFF without retracting the lens.  Turning off battery indicator and setting temp back to CCD results in permanently ON operation as before.   I did not investigate further.

« Last Edit: 10 / September / 2012, 12:23:26 by SticK »
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Offline Microfunguy

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Re: CHDKPTP - PC Remote Control Performance Analysis
« Reply #119 on: 10 / September / 2012, 12:38:53 »
Did you checkout that S90 lens\CCD assembly on Ebay ?

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