Movie Fps and burst rate HACK for the new Canon PowerShot SX280 Digic 6 ? - General Discussion and Assistance - CHDK Forum

Movie Fps and burst rate HACK for the new Canon PowerShot SX280 Digic 6 ?

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Offline moroz

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hello,
the new Canon PowerShot SX280 with a Digic 6 processor will be released end of  month.
since the Digic 6 is a very powerful processor,  i would like to know if we can expect a significant hack for the movie mode.
i am thinking about doubling the fps for the full HD 1080p or increasing the BURST mode.
canon has announced that the SX280 will shoot 60fps at 1080p and a  14 fps Burst rate.
i am sure the Digic 6 can easily handle the double of both rates.
don't you think so?
thanks

AFAIK,  the Digic processors (any model) are not responsible for actual video recording in Canon P&S cameras.  That's done by a seperate DSP chip in the camera.   So a new processor isn't going to help much with increased frame rates in video.
Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16

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Offline moroz

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too bad...

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Offline reyalp

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AFAIK,  the Digic processors (any model) are not responsible for actual video recording in Canon P&S cameras.  That's done by a seperate DSP chip in the camera.
I don't believe this is correct. Digic includes the DSP, as well as the ARM where CHDK runs. However, this doesn't really change the answer.
i am thinking about doubling the fps for the full HD 1080p or increasing the BURST mode.
canon has announced that the SX280 will shoot 60fps at 1080p and a  14 fps Burst rate.
i am sure the Digic 6 can easily handle the double of both rates.
How exactly did you reach this conclusion?

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don't you think so?
Nope. In my experience, Canon's engineers aren't stupid . If they could record HD at 120 FPS or do 28 FPS burst, that would be a very big selling point against the competition. Canon wouldn't spend the money to make hardware that capable and then not use it.
Don't forget what the H stands for.


AFAIK,  the Digic processors (any model) are not responsible for actual video recording in Canon P&S cameras.  That's done by a seperate DSP chip in the camera.
I don't believe this is correct. Digic includes the DSP, as well as the ARM where CHDK runs. However, this doesn't really change the answer.
Even now I learn something new every week.  Never realized the DSP & ARM cores were on the same chip.  I guess that makes sense in hindsight.
Ported :   A1200    SD940   G10    Powershot N    G16

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Offline moroz

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hello,
i thought the digic 6 have some potential after i read this article
http://www.eoshd.com/content/9806/nikon-v1-shooting-4k-60fps-raw-for-200

[/quote]
Nope. In my experience, Canon's engineers aren't stupid . If they could record HD at 120 FPS or do 28 FPS burst, that would be a very big selling point against the competition. Canon wouldn't spend the money to make hardware that capable and then not use it.

[/quote]
you can be surprised  reyalp

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Offline moroz

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another thing:

the olympus Tough TG-2 with its TruePic VI IHS Image Processor can shoot:
1920 x 1080: 60 fps
1280 x 720: 120 fps
640 x 480 : 240 fps
and have a  Burst Rate of 60.3 fps at 3 MP for up to 60 frames
i couldn't find a comparison between the Digic 6 and the TruePic VI IHS but we can doubt that their performances are approximately equivalent


it is not uncommon for companies to cripple a device through the firmware.

For example, some wireless security cameras will will be limited to 15FPS but the higher end model which has the same image sensor and SOC, will do 30FPS when the only physical change was a IR cut filter.

Or in the case of the rigol DS1052E, a simple firmware hack can double the frequency range and improve the scanning resolution (because the SOC used was capable of it as the same SOC and scan related hardware is in a higher end model) (furthermore, there is additional work being done to further alter the firmware and find the true limits of the hardware, and they are getting results of 140MHz+ out of a scope that was originally marketed as a 50MHz scope)

I feel the same is true for many canon point and shoot cameras, while not to the same extent but even with older models such as the sx230 hs, the limited control over the video shows that not all of the power of the SOC is being used (though not much work has been done of the video side of things with CHDK (eg compared to versions for older cameras, the current CHDK does not even allow you to lock focus on video, or manually adjust focus during video)

(developing hardware is expensive which is why many companies tend to develop a single item and then find ways to cripple it and sell it for a lower price)
« Last Edit: 30 / March / 2013, 20:49:30 by Razor512 »


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Offline reyalp

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it is not uncommon for companies to cripple a device through the firmware.
In my experience (including ~5 years of CHDK development...), outright crippling is a lot less common than people think.
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I feel the same is true for many canon point and shoot cameras, while not to the same extent but even with older models such as the sx230 hs, the limited control over the video shows that not all of the power of the SOC is being used (though not much work has been done of the video side of things with CHDK (eg compared to versions for older cameras, the current CHDK does not even allow you to lock focus on video, or manually adjust focus during video)
Limited *controls* are quite common. Not including video controls helps canon segment their market (pushing "serious" video people to their dedicated DV cams) and saves them development effort. Building a system with say, 2x more raw CPU power or memory bandwidth than it actually uses is not nearly so common.

If moroz suggestion that SX280 hardware was capable of 2x the advertised frame rate was correct, that would mean that Canon had substantially overspecced the parts. This would be rather silly when video frame rates and burst rates are significant point of market competition. If there was some other Digic 6 based model that had the capabilities, it would be a more sensible argument, but even that wouldn't be definitive, since other factors could still be at play.
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(developing hardware is expensive which is why many companies tend to develop a single item and then find ways to cripple it and sell it for a lower price)
It does happen, but again in my experience less common than people think. Even if the CPU has more power than it needs, the low end parts will use slower RAM, bus speeds etc. There's also binning, where the "crippled" parts actually fail to meet the standards required for the high end products.
Don't forget what the H stands for.

Re: Movie Fps and burst rate HACK for the new Canon PowerShot SX280 Digic 6 ?
« Reply #9 on: 01 / September / 2013, 15:49:35 »
it is not uncommon for companies to cripple a device through the firmware.
In my experience (including ~5 years of CHDK development...), outright crippling is a lot less common than people think.
Quote
I feel the same is true for many canon point and shoot cameras, while not to the same extent but even with older models such as the sx230 hs, the limited control over the video shows that not all of the power of the SOC is being used (though not much work has been done of the video side of things with CHDK (eg compared to versions for older cameras, the current CHDK does not even allow you to lock focus on video, or manually adjust focus during video)
Limited *controls* are quite common. Not including video controls helps canon segment their market (pushing "serious" video people to their dedicated DV cams) and saves them development effort. Building a system with say, 2x more raw CPU power or memory bandwidth than it actually uses is not nearly so common.

If moroz suggestion that SX280 hardware was capable of 2x the advertised frame rate was correct, that would mean that Canon had substantially overspecced the parts. This would be rather silly when video frame rates and burst rates are significant point of market competition. If there was some other Digic 6 based model that had the capabilities, it would be a more sensible argument, but even that wouldn't be definitive, since other factors could still be at play.
Quote
(developing hardware is expensive which is why many companies tend to develop a single item and then find ways to cripple it and sell it for a lower price)
It does happen, but again in my experience less common than people think. Even if the CPU has more power than it needs, the low end parts will use slower RAM, bus speeds etc. There's also binning, where the "crippled" parts actually fail to meet the standards required for the high end products.

focus-lock on video
Yes defocussing during shooting 3dvideos is most exciting...above all when only one camera is involved.
But there is a manual-focus-option.

I have great hopes for sx270/280. 60p/sec-videos are a must to get good synch in 3dstereo(stereodatamaker). we already have now(with special synchcable) but higher speed of subjects is still a problem, more or less.
A590 IS-1.01b(x5), SX130IS-101c(x3), 101f(x2)
3dstereo-aeropanorama-Jungfraujoch
http://www.stereopan.tk

 

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